Illegal bird trapping in North & South Cyprus

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
28/09/2011 07:49

I have just visited GoPetition and found the following page very interesting, disturbing and highly distressing:



http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/call-for-action-against-illegal-bird-trapping-in-cyprus.html

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
28/09/2011 09:42

So did you sign this epetition ?

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
28/09/2011 09:55

That's for me to know and for you to keep guessing, 'erolz' - what do you think?



Just because the petition emanates from the South - does this make it any less of an issue of grave concern?

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
28/09/2011 10:03

Tenakoutou wrote "Just because the petition emanates from the South - does this make it any less of an issue of grave concern?"



Not to me is doesn't. I signed the petition on 16th September and have no need to be 'cryptic' about publicaly saying so here. I also worked for Birdlife Cyprus on the monitoring project that seeks to measure trapping activity in the South, specifically to gain experience so Kuskor in the North could run a similar monitoring project here.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
28/09/2011 10:12

You have my deep respect for doing so, 'erolz'.



Unfortunately, these foul trapping practices are extremely difficult to monitor, or detect - however, from talking to vatious Cypriots, I do know that the same culprits have been getting away with it for years on end - it appears that as long as they keep supplying 'the powers that be', they enjoy the equivalent of 'diplomatic immunity'.

Tango1


Joined: 19/02/2011
Posts: 1151

Message Posted:
28/09/2011 11:51

There were some very fine mesh traps up in Ilgas earlier this year. A Brit walking his dog, tore it down I understand.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
28/09/2011 11:54

If anyone does come accross mist nets or lime sticks Kuskor would very much like to know about them. There are contact details here http://www.kuskor.org/en/cyprus-nature-library/contact-us.html or you can just email me if you like and I will make sure the info gets to the right person.

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
28/09/2011 12:11

This" Vile "practise is not uncommon throughout the Med,France ,Spain , Gibraltar ,Italy,Cyprus,are all exponents of this senseless barbaric practice,and have been for centuries.. But by far the worst culprits are Malta and Gozo.Many petitions have been signed over the years,but it still remains a common illegal practice..I have signed the petition ,but I fear for it's effectiveness ...But if Spain can call a halt to Bull Fighting , who knows, one day hopefully something will be done...



http://www.wildlifeextra.com/go/news/malta-protest.html#cr

moxie


Joined: 23/05/2009
Posts: 969

Message Posted:
28/09/2011 12:45

SICK!!!! is nothing free to live in this world without cruelty?

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
28/09/2011 12:48

I guess the only honest answer to that moxie is NO...:(

Tango1


Joined: 19/02/2011
Posts: 1151

Message Posted:
28/09/2011 15:03

Mans inhumanity to animals, birds, fish, horses and everthing else you can think of just makes me sick. And don't get me on the subject of donkeys and asses in the Middle East, India, Pakistan and Africa.

moxie


Joined: 23/05/2009
Posts: 969

Message Posted:
29/09/2011 09:22

your'e right Rob...i cant think of any creature that is not killed for fun , food, sport, money,or simply because they are classed as Vermin! mankind has a lot to answer for......

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
29/09/2011 09:44

When you know these bastards will even eat your garden Robin without a pang of conscience - in fact, with total relish, is it any wonder that civilised people treat them with total disdain and link the mentality of bird trappers with the same mentality that perpetrates the general maltreatment of all animals and considers this as perfectly 'acceptable'?

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
29/09/2011 10:05

For me the issue or core problem with illegal trapping of birds in Cyprus is not one of 'animal cruelty' but a problem of the damage it does to endangered species. The 'civilised world' as far as that means places like UK, USA or NZ have no great moral high ground on which to preach about animal cruelty in my view. The modern systems of factory farming in order to provide cheap meat and poultry are often no less cruel to the animal than mist netting or limesticking and arguably more so if quality of life over the lifespan of the animal is considered. The difference between factory farming and mist netting is that factory farming whilst undoubtedly in my view involves much cruelty to animals it does not harm directly endangered species and mist netting does.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
29/09/2011 21:33

Unfortunately, and I mean that sincerely, factory farming is necessary in order to feed the populace - whereas 'mist-netting' and 'lime-sticking' isn't.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
30/09/2011 05:07

Well that is a different discussion really. It certainly could be argued that factory farming of animals is not required to feed the populace, if the 'civilised' world did not demand a right to eat vast amounts of animal produce at cheap prices but instead moved to a diet with a much lower proportion of meat and poultry.



It is, as far as I am concerned not so much a matter of we have to produce the amount of meat / polutry we do to feed the world but more a case of we (the 'civilised' world) WANT to eat diets with a large proportion of meat. If we actualy chose to eat less % of meat and poultry of our diest is would benefit 'feeding the populace' not harm it. So to me certain Cypriots wanting to eat small birds is not much different to 'civilised' people wanting to eat diet with large % of meat. Just the former involves damage to endanagered species and the later does not.



[cont]

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
30/09/2011 05:13

Just to give some supporting evidence to the argument that factory farming of anmials is not a matter of 'we must to feed the population' but actualy more a case of 'we (civilised people) must because we like to eat high % of meat in our diets ' here are a few stats.



Number of people who could be adequately fed using land freed if Americans reduced their intake of meat by 10%: 100 million

Percentage of corn grown in the US eaten by people: 20

Percentage of corn grown in the US eaten by livestock: 80

Percentage of oats grown in the US eaten by livestock: 95

Percentage of protein wasted by cycling grain through livestock: 90

Pounds of potatoes that can be grown on an acre: 40,000

Pounds of beef produced on an acre: 250

Gallons of water needed to produce a pound of wheat: 25

Gallons of water needed to produce a pound of California beef: 5,000



[cont]

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
30/09/2011 05:19

Now the above have been copy pasted from this site



http://www.consumercide.com/js/index.php/food-supply/39-necessarily-vegetarian/379-how-to-win-an-argument-with-a-meat-eater.html



So clearly not the most impartial source. However the pure science I beleive does show we do NOT need to eat the % of animal products we do in the 'west' to live healthy lives, in fact there is much evidence that the % we do eat are unhealthy for us. In terms of efficency of use of resources from water, to energy to land and more besides, plant products can and do produce vastly more for less than animal products, be it calories, protien or any other 'necessity' in a humans diet.



So in summary my personal view, and others are entitled to totaly different ones, is that the inherent cruelty to animals of modern factory farmind is not the result of 'necessity' but of 'want' in reality, and spcificaly want of 'civilised' people and thus little different from bird trapping in that sense.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
30/09/2011 10:30

OK, so you are effectively supporting Cypriots' predeliction for bird trapping - but, then again, you would because you are a Cypriot!



How can anyone ever question a Cypriot?



That's why Cypriots never owned 'Encyclopaedia Britannica' collections!

moxie


Joined: 23/05/2009
Posts: 969

Message Posted:
30/09/2011 10:31

well said ..i like the one where people say ...what would we do will all the animals if we didnt eat meat????

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
30/09/2011 11:29

Tenakoutou I am trying to say that as far as animal cruelty goes I do not see that bird trapping because some Cypriots like to eat small birds is that difference in essence to the cruelty involved in factory farming of animals because 'civilised' people like to eat diets with a large proportion of meat in them. As far damage to endangered species go I do see a difference, which is why I am much more active in efforts to stop bird trapping in Cyprus than I am in efforts to get people to eat less meat. Both are cruel in order to meet a groups 'wants' rather than 'needs' but one damages endangered species as well and the other does not.



I accept you have a different view and I am just expressing mine. However I could just as easily say 'when you (civilised westerners) are cruel, that can not be questioned at all and is instantly excused as 'necessary' when clearly it is not, but when cyprots are cruel they must be called uncivilised.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
30/09/2011 11:34

[cont] I am fully aware that true meaning can so easily be misunderstood, but I have to say to me Tenakoutou, your posts feel - and I use the word feel because I can not know it is the case, just that it is the case for me emotionaly, essentialy 'superior' and condesending, like a kind of colonial attitude from the 1930's. When the 'white man' is cruel it is because of necessity alone, but when the 'natives' are cruel it is evidence of barbarism and lack of education and understanding.



The above may well be I admit be grosly unfair to you as a person, but that is the feeling I get from your posts which is kind of ironic given your claim that I am saying "How can anyone ever question a Cypriot?"



Peace.

moxie


Joined: 23/05/2009
Posts: 969

Message Posted:
30/09/2011 13:01

well if you think about it...these poor birds are in the same boat as many animals......animals have their throats cut whilst still alive ...chickens are kept in terrible conditions.....is one crueller than the other? personally i think its all cruel,

I agree with Erolz one is endangering the wildlife and a demand, one is pure demand.

btw my mssge 20 was for msge 19