Is it going to be A Bleak Christmas 2008 in the UK for many families?

w26kay



Joined: 14/10/2007
Posts: 479

Message Posted:
25/11/2008 00:27

Astronomical amounts of taxpayers money pumped into the banks.

Little or nothing done to help the public/businesses by the Government.

National debt ballooning.

Soaring Unemployment.



The list is endless.



Has the Government gambled with our money, or will the gamble pay off in the future? And at what cost? What do you think?

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
25/11/2008 09:56

It's a big gamble Kay. This government enjoys spending other people’s money. At the end of August 2008, UK National debt was £637.4 billion. The biggest and most startling thing announced in the last couple of days is that more than £500bn is being added to the national debt between now and 2015. The amount of taxpayers' money being spent on debt interest alone stands at more than £31 billion a year. Fortunately this government will not have to worry about how the debt will be repaid – that will be left to the Conservatives to unravel. Gordon Brown has already said that next year taxes and National Insurance will have to increase. That may happen under a conservative government who will then be branded as the ‘bad boys’ by Labour for putting up Taxes and NI.

I really don’t think reducing the VAT rate will help anyone other than the businesses that are VAT registered. They won’t pass on the reduction it’ll just go into their own ‘coffers’

aripointer


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 189

Message Posted:
25/11/2008 13:25

Fully agree with No1 Doyen.



The UK is the only oil producing country in the world that is in a recession.



Beer up 4p per pint and extra duty on fuel. The working class and pensioners are the only losers.



AP.

Lemtich



Joined: 15/02/2007
Posts: 1487

Message Posted:
25/11/2008 13:49

Work is the curse of the drinking classes!



Lem

1python


Joined: 03/11/2008
Posts: 32

Message Posted:
25/11/2008 13:52

well done Gordon,he is i believe ,a man of true political convictions and has the gravitas and nous to lead the world out of the financial wilderness the capitalist masters have created.....i am of course very well red.

fredred


Joined: 09/12/2007
Posts: 89

Message Posted:
25/11/2008 14:00

aripointer



I thought America and Russia were oil producers who are in recession.



Fred

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
25/11/2008 14:01

Our Supreme Leader has spoken! We are on the road to recovery.



Guess its time to leave for the ships. I know where there is one we could use.



Just parked off Corfu. Large vodkas all round!



wyn

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
25/11/2008 14:02

This Govenment.....................what an absolute joke

They have not got the first idea of how business ticks the sooner we see the back of em the better

Wilts Girl


Joined: 16/07/2008
Posts: 159

Message Posted:
25/11/2008 14:07

You would think people would be cutting back this year but I bet when I am out doing my Christmas shopping there will be throngs of people as usual.

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
25/11/2008 14:30

Wilts Girl

Erm I think that is the idea. Good old Gordon wants to put money back in peoples pockets so that you can all spend your way out of recession (and suffer the consequences later).

AJ

britvic



Joined: 05/09/2008
Posts: 3039

Message Posted:
25/11/2008 14:32

Unfortunately for our business, we are not seeing throngs of customers, there has been a definate slump since September.

fredred


Joined: 09/12/2007
Posts: 89

Message Posted:
25/11/2008 14:41

Went to Town yesterday car parks were full at 10.00 am

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
25/11/2008 18:49

Sky news tonight........



Gordon Brown (OSL) has announced that Carol Vorderman has been appointed Minister for



Entertainment.....so The UK can get its next loan from Ocean Finance!.



Sir Peter Mandelsohn has declined a plush Whitehall Office. He says " I am happy with my



hinged coffin, as I only go out after dark ( well occaisionally to Corfu in the day)



Pass the fiddle!



wyn

Dixie Normus


Joined: 22/02/2008
Posts: 820

Message Posted:
25/11/2008 20:00

Seems good old Gordons give away to get the economy going is a case of borow now worry about the conciquences later, a sure fire plan to sink Blighty in deeper crap than it is already. I can only thank my lucky stars I left the Uk when I did, NC may be ran by buffoons but they could pobably teach Gordon and his moreons a thing or two.



D.N

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
25/11/2008 20:14

DM,



Get the efes in! I need a rest in the sun!



wyn

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
25/11/2008 22:47

I sometimes wish brown had stood down and called an election right now and the tories won it cos I would love to know what there ideas would be for getting us out of this recession.Lot of mouthing off by osborne and co. but I have not heard one constuctive idea how they would solve our problems.I suppose it will be"Well we could not do anything cos of the mess labour left behind"Perhaps they ought to look at what Obama is saying.He is backing Bushes plans to get things started not trying to make political gain from it.It seems that sometimes the only time our leaders can get it right is when there is a coalition.....

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
25/11/2008 23:00

aripoiter.. I think you will find he has frozen extra fuel duty and as apensioner I have not noticed any changes yet. What he should be doing is make the energy companies reduce there prices by the same amount that they increased them by when oil was$140 abarrel, same as fuel prices they should be back down to 60/65p for unleaded, as for there deisel price that is outrageuos.It costs about athird of the price to produce diesel as it does petrol.,and they make more of it thats why it was always 20pltr. cheaper than petrol. this argument about there are more deisel vehicles now is aload of cr.p. there are less trucks on the road now than 12months ago,deiselcars are much more economical than there petrol couterparts, so it is obvious the fuel companies are taking us for a ride.....

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
25/11/2008 23:01

Hi Coachie, I remember a simular conversation about 5 or 6 weeks ago and you said then that good old Gordon is the right man to sort this mess out.



Still have the same views since things got progressively worse ?

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
25/11/2008 23:01

Python, too much sun?



The only people who can and will dig the UK out of the shit are the ordinary may in the street... no magic wands.... no hoards of dosh suddenly available.



Even if the Gov't do borrow sheds loads and spend it on your behalf you'll still end up having to pay for it... now responsiblity for this gamble and the need to make it does not fall squarely at the feet of any Gov't... it's the banks' fault.



The bankers are the ones who took a punt with your money and lost the lot on a fools bet... i.e. The bet that they could lend enormous sums of your money to people who were not truly credit worthy because, rising house prices would always cover the loan should the borrower default...



Which everyone knows is total crap because every 20-25 years of rising property prices some sort of settlement happens... that they (the bankers) did not take this into account only proves what w*nkers they are... but the greed made them blind.



Enter Pike stage left

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
25/11/2008 23:03

hi dixie isnt he going to give us pensioners 60quid bonus wow

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
25/11/2008 23:16

grouch how many of us will have to pay thee 45 per cent tax i guess we should thank our lucky stars, its bad for the people at home espically or kids jusy got of the phone from my son who has been for another interview for nothing just a waste of petrol, i get my old age pension yes i know you all think im a young stupidn\ blond thank you nige but i get very upse t when all we worked for can goes txxxs up, our kids and grandkids what is for them, we have all mostly lived through good bad, bad good and so on but we have lived we had fun and these guys have worries now i worry all i want is to give my kids a good life but here am i at this age working becase of things which went wrongg for me here but do i enjoy it you bet i do in my head i havent yet reached 40 i love you and wish the best for you all xxx

Dixie Normus


Joined: 22/02/2008
Posts: 820

Message Posted:
25/11/2008 23:32

Hi LiLLi,

Thats what hurts most, I can stand and say there by the grace of god go I . My Lad has woked his nuts off and gets a constant slap in the face from Gordon and his cronies. Groucho, hits the nail on the head, and Coachie's point is valid, the Uk will be swimming in a sea of sewerage for a number of years to come, borrowing will only make the swim longer and its our kids who will suffer paying for the w@@@ker bankers bonuses when all they did was shaft the UK and everyone left in the hole.



D.N

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
25/11/2008 23:40

Unfortunately the UK has got at least 5 years of financial grief ahead. Unemployment is already rearing its ugly head and with most boom and bust scenarios it takes a long time to sort out before you are back to a decent economy again. Tighten your belts cos we are all in for a long bumpy ride.

AJ

Lemtich



Joined: 15/02/2007
Posts: 1487

Message Posted:
25/11/2008 23:52

I worked out what the collective noun for bankers is.



Its a wunch!



I remember back in the good old days before the euro, when Ireland changed its pound to the punt.



I asked a fellow holiday maker from Ireland in Crete why it was called the punt.



"Its to rhyme with bank manager", he muttered.



Lem

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
26/11/2008 00:05

Lem,



I really enjoyed that. Nothing like a good laugh before you get to bed!



wyn

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
26/11/2008 00:21

Such a shame that Uncle Gordon is back as Chancellor and the Dark Lord is back in charge!!!



I note that already people are looking at the fact that the government of the UK is borrowing lots of money to try to keep the country afloat. How many of those condemned a certain Great Lady who used the opposite tack and led the UK into financial greatness?



Forget the agressive mode but look at what is going to happen in 3 - 4 years, yes payback has to come for those cuts in VAT etc and if you are employed at that time you will be in the front line.



Another question, why is it that we all have to pay for the mega rich gamblers who play the stock markets? These people play with our money on the the international exchanges but when things go wrong we pay the price. Is it time for us plebs to rise up and do nasties on this minority??



Lots of questions for both right and left to play with.

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
26/11/2008 01:44

The banking crisis is global and no corner of the civilised world is likely to escape unafected.

Monetary circulation within any economy is the driving force of prosperity.

I do not think hat TRNC or Turkey or ROC have yet seen the impact of a demise in the circulation of money.

High interest rates are reflective of instability and the possible forthcomming devaluation of the YTL.

My advice is be very cautious with the YTL. Speculation upon high interest rates is riskey.

The pound remains weak and likely to continue for months to come.

US $ destined to become stronger as Obama takeover instills confidence in USA recovery.

Without doubt, dificult times are ahead. If you have cash right now, its a buyers market. Gold is a sure fine bet to see through recession if you seek investment security.

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
26/11/2008 14:45

Turtle ..No I havent changed my mind.I dont see as how he has any alternative but to borrow ,the yanks are pumping trillions of dollars into there banking system to try and save the economy,but when our gov. does it they are a load of w......s.Didnt hear many complaints acouple of years ago when every thing was hunky dory and people were making money, but like the true brits we are,as soon as things go wrong its Browns fault.Well we do not have 3million unemployed and mortgages at 15% like we did a few years ago under a certain Lady T...or have we to ignore that.I lost money under the last crash but not because of the governments fault but bad advise from so called "advisor"from one of the greedy banks......

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
26/11/2008 15:35

Although I am not clever enough to forsee this major catastrophe I am sensible enough to understand that it could not last and yes I did ok out of the last 5/6 years but chose not to live the high life and buy the big house and flash car so I unlike our govenment am in a reasonable situation to hopefully weather this storm.

Now if you want to talk about unemployment if you take the 2m on incapacity

benefit that were on the dole and add it to our growing unemployed I think we may be nearer 5m unemployed.......................a damn site more than it was 10years ago and as for national debt well thats going to be with us for a long long time to come.............................Shameless.

markvpiazza


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 530

Message Posted:
26/11/2008 15:57

I thought when times were good, you put a bit away for a rainy day?



Good'ol Gordon as been on a spending splurge with our money for the last 10 years, employing an extra 900,000 government funded employees, while 1,000,000 plus immigrants entered the country, to do the jobs that 1,000,000 unemployed Brits were being paid benefits for doing nothing



It's just a re-run of the last time, Labour blow the economy, the Tories spend 5 years cleaning up the mess, followed by 5 years of improving things, then Labour take over and blow it all again



Plus ca change



Mark

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
26/11/2008 15:58

Why can't he use our Gold reserves. oooops, forgot, he sold the lot off cheap!

1python


Joined: 03/11/2008
Posts: 32

Message Posted:
26/11/2008 16:02

Groucho (message17) not enough sun as im in blighty im afraid. I do not believe any one politician can be blamed as we are all culpable and deserve the leaders we elect. I must say though the govt are only a management commitee for capital and Gordon is only one out of thirty or so people who stalk the corridors of power in the U.K.....at least we can see Gordon...not so the faceless ones in our establishment. Point well made Coachie. Peoples memories are short indeed

fredred


Joined: 09/12/2007
Posts: 89

Message Posted:
26/11/2008 16:20

To blame the present government for this recession is ridiculous, this is a world wide recession and has been caused by the American housing market, and greedy Bankers. The actions taken by Gordon Brown has been the same as all the other major world governments have taken, and that is to pump money into the economy, only time will tell if this was the right action.

I certainly do not here the Tories offering any better alternatives, but I do remember the last time they were in power when thousands of people had their homes repossessed because of high interest rates, coal pit closures which led to huge redundancies and do we remember the poll tax fiasco.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
26/11/2008 16:31

An Israeli doctor said, 'Medicine in my country is so advanced, we can

take a kidney out of one person, put it in another, and have him looking

for work in six weeks.'

A German doctor said, 'That's nothing! In Germany , we can take a lung

out of one person, put it in another, and have him looking for work in

four weeks.'

A Russian doctor said, 'In my country medicine is so advanced, we can

take half a heart from one person, put it in another, and have them both

looking for work in two weeks.'

The English doctor, not to be outdone, said 'Hah!. We can take an

@rsehole out of Scotland , put him in 10 Downing Street and have half

the country looking for work within twenty-four hours.

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
26/11/2008 21:03

How very true No1

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
26/11/2008 21:31

Python I only metioned the sun because according to your post you are "very well red"....

Lemtich



Joined: 15/02/2007
Posts: 1487

Message Posted:
26/11/2008 21:48

Woollies and MFI have just gone tits up with no chance of a government bail out. Woollies employed 30,000 alone.



This going to be a bleak Christmas for some.



There's more to come.



Lem

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
26/11/2008 22:05

Lemtich..not surprised about MFI, its not the first time for them,as for Woolies last I saw on the news at 6 itstill was not definate if they would fall, but their shares had been suspended on the stock exchange..Just as a matter of interest,if they fall is MrBrown going to get the blame for that as wellas everything else.Poor management Iwould have thought....

Lemtich



Joined: 15/02/2007
Posts: 1487

Message Posted:
26/11/2008 22:14

I doesn't look good, Coachie.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7751064.stm



Lem

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
26/11/2008 22:19

hi coachie dosent wollies own a lot of the other high street retailers also does does that mean they all go, god its so very bad how will we recover all those job losses at this time of year. my own son was made redundant and has been told by the dss he has to wait 39 weeks before he can claim mortgage payments but if he sold and rents then they will pay.how the hell does anyone sell at the moment, he wont be able to make the payments so i guess what the outcome will be, but as an immigrant you get a house benefits etc is this why we are in a mess. how are they going to find all these benefits for people now not just job losses but loosing homes also. my heart bleeds for all these people at least we are shielded to a certain extent. sorry to moan but i feel so strongly about it and helpless

karakum5c



Joined: 18/03/2008
Posts: 1021

Message Posted:
26/11/2008 22:53

Lilli---Get your son to apply to his lender for a payment holiday, they will probably agree to add the interest for up to 9 months to his loan owing. Also make sure he changes his mortgage to a straight forward interest only one.



If he has any problems go into a Citizens Advice office and speak to an advisor like me, its amazing how lenders attitudes change when they realise they are no longer talking to joe public anymore.



Always contact your lender right away its the easiest thing to dig yourself a hole.

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
26/11/2008 23:08

karakum5c thank you for that he is on interest only but i will pass on advice its such a wory i am here trying hard to make a living and want to help but it goes againsy the grain when others get everything without paying a penny and our kids in this time of need when they only want to work get rejected thank you so much for the advice lillli

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
27/11/2008 15:51

Lilli..woolies and MFI have both gone.One of the reasons they cannot sell the business is they owe 400million pounds and have no assets or very little.All the stores they have are on lease,which surprised me.They used to belong to the Kingfisher group afew years ago but they got rid of them.You could have bought the company for £1 acouple of weeks ago but you had to take the debt as well.Bad news all round but this was purely a management failure...

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
27/11/2008 15:53

Karakum5C. Thats good advice. (mess 41)

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
27/11/2008 16:17

Lilli.. definitely sound advice from Karakum5c. I have given my son-in-law the same advice because there is every possibility he will loose his job in the new year.He works for JCB who have made several hundred redundant in the last couple of months but are trying to keep their experience workforce by reducing there hours hoping things may improve....We can only hope things do...

1python


Joined: 03/11/2008
Posts: 32

Message Posted:
27/11/2008 16:37

Groucho :message 36: I like it,nice one mate.