Are the British a mean nation?

Clarissa2


Joined: 12/06/2009
Posts: 1476

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 21:04

Should people (especially rich) give more to charity?

A survey published last week found the pay packages of blue-chip directors have increased by an astonishing 49% in a year. Despite the economic crisis, these executives now enjoy average pay above £ 2 mln! Can this be justified? And it is not only company bosses, look at show business or football.

And there is something the rich can do to help the redress the balance : they can give more away.

But do they?

Britain is now a long way behind the US, with charitable giving amounting to 0.7% of GDP in Britain as compared to 1.7% in America.

Among the rich, the gap is even worse, with Americans earning the equivalent of £200,000 giving away 45 times (!) as much to charity as compared to the Brits.

So what's wrong with us? Are we a mean nation?

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 21:05

Are you British?

Tango1


Joined: 19/02/2011
Posts: 1151

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 21:08

I think you'll find that when it comes to things like Red Nose Day and Pudsy with Terry Wogan, the British people give more money per capita then most other countries. The millions that are collected in one evening are stupendous.

Clarissa2


Joined: 12/06/2009
Posts: 1476

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 21:10

Re: Msg 2,



Do you think people (especially rich) should be more generous?





P.S. Yes, I am.

Stonehousepub


Joined: 21/05/2009
Posts: 755

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 21:10

msg 3



I must admit, you are probably right... The Brits are exceptional at getting together to raise cash for a good cause.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 21:11

Message 4. Yes I do.



Thanks

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 21:12

we buy in trnc , thats charity at its highest lmao.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 21:14

The rich should give more to charity.

racoonchic



Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3223

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 21:27

bugger off and mind your own.. pretty mean.. lol

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 21:30

" these executives now enjoy average pay above £ 2 mln!"

I hope they do!

lovingcyprus


Joined: 02/03/2007
Posts: 1272

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 22:00

Remind me what Bill Gates gives to charity

Clarissa2


Joined: 12/06/2009
Posts: 1476

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 22:00

Re: Msg 10,

Groucho,

£2,697,644 to be precise!

And very little is given away.

Clarissa2


Joined: 12/06/2009
Posts: 1476

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 22:12

Re:Msg 11,



A lot: £24billion!

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 22:32

If I had the money that Bill Gates had I would give more than that.

spider


Joined: 03/01/2009
Posts: 5527

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 22:37

If I had that sort of money I would invest it some place good lol.





er,not ear !







Spider,X

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 22:38

If I had the money Bill Gates had I wouldn't worry about exchanged land

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 22:38

A very good friend of mine is a multi millionaire mainly through inheritance of business intrests but he spends a lot of his time and money working for charity mainly cancer and blindness.

He paid for a member of his staffs wedding because the lad was in a bit of a hole, he has done many things to help people less fortunate than himself.

Yes he is rich,... very rich and enjoys life very well but always thinks and acts in a manner that puts other people first.



And he would be angry with me if he new I had written this so no I don't think Britain is mean just take a look at how much our govenment give to other countries.

spider


Joined: 03/01/2009
Posts: 5527

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 22:39

And may I remind you most of the post's on er are after our money













or a home for a pet..



Spider,X

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 22:43

Turtle, he sounds like a gent.

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 23:09

Clarissa2 (mess 1)



Your question should be "Are the British Nation any meaner than the Netherlands Nation"?............

mcstyler


Joined: 15/08/2011
Posts: 205

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 23:13

The uk is a great country if your foreign or a single woman, even better a single woman with a kid/kids, if your a white single british male with no money you are screwed.

mcstyler


Joined: 15/08/2011
Posts: 205

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 23:17

I was okay i claimed political asylum, i got a council flat, then a job, i ended up buying it for £60.000 then sold it for £180.00 five years later, see ya later uk i'm of to cyprus.

Clarissa2


Joined: 12/06/2009
Posts: 1476

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 23:18

Re: Msg 20,

Victim,

the Netherlands along with Norway, Denmark and Sweden belong to the world's most generous nations.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 23:21

Message 23. With regards to what? Please quote percentages and the source of your claim

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
04/11/2011 23:45

Message 4. Are you proud to be British?

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
05/11/2011 01:42

Its a matter of scale : If you earn 20 million and give away l9 million you are still pretty comfortable.



If you earn 20 and give away 1 to someone even worse off, you are truly generous and charitable.



The British are so good at making a show of giving money and even time, but when it comes to finding half an hour to help someone who is ill or spend time with a lonely old person, when no one else will notice or put their picture in the paper, most of them are far too busy.

steptoenoel


Joined: 27/04/2011
Posts: 116

Message Posted:
05/11/2011 01:51

Bizz i liked your post but i prefer to support when and who i can at the time.I am now in the wonderfull position that i am am now re-earning the same take home as i did 18 months ago.ty inland revenue.

I will continue to support my chosen charities to the best i can.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
05/11/2011 07:22

Msg 12... ah! you meant 'per minute' not 'minimum'....

magicart


Joined: 05/10/2008
Posts: 985

Message Posted:
05/11/2011 07:42

During our fund raising activity we have always found the brits to be very generous and supportive.



They should feel proud of their acheivements-they have improved the quality of life for those suffering with cancer.



Well done you brits!!

flowerfairy


Joined: 17/09/2008
Posts: 1277

Message Posted:
05/11/2011 10:07

During 'our' fundraising, the locals and brits raised over £20.000 worth of goods, in one year, for the unfortunate children on this island.

My belief is that the ones that truly give to charities would like to remail anonymous.

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
05/11/2011 10:19

Many do...

yrret


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 761

Message Posted:
05/11/2011 10:25

I was topped at Stansted a few weeks back by a charity there collecting for African kids.



I told the chap that I would ahppily donate if the Gov's in these countries stopped spending millions on arms, and riding round in private jest, top of the range Mercedes etc etc.



By giving to these nations, it allows them more funds to spend in the unneccesaries, that is what you are actually funding. They should get their own house in order first.

The state the UK is in, with pensioner dieing of the cold, hospital wating lists etc, I would stop ALL overseas aid, as I believe that is what 'the majority' of people would want ........... eek ........ dares to be democratic!

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
05/11/2011 10:47

Are the British a charitable nation ? - check out how much our government gives out in foreign aid and there is only one answer - a resounding yes !!

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
05/11/2011 10:53

msg33.That is one reason why Britain is skint...

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
05/11/2011 10:58

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_charitable_countries

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
05/11/2011 11:15

Messages 23 and 4. Are any answers forthcoming?

newscoop


Joined: 23/12/2007
Posts: 2197

Message Posted:
05/11/2011 11:47

Couldn't the argument posed in mess 32 also be applied here?

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
05/11/2011 13:38

@ msg 36, No1Doyen: From a British source (The Guardian):

▶ [ http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2010/sep/08/charitable-giving-country#data ].

Click on "Get the data".



There are many more sources, however non-British, so they cannot be trusted of course...

▶ [ https://www.google.com/search?q=most+generous+nations+charity&hl=en&num=10&lr=&ft=i&cr=&safe=images ].

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
05/11/2011 14:26

Message 4. Are you proud to be British?

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
05/11/2011 18:11

steptoe ; Dont mention the Inland Revene to me or I will start a rant that will go on all night.



But the point I was trying to make is it is the degree of sacrifice. It is easy for a comparatively well off person to put their hand in their pocket or be seen to organise events, the truly charitable give time as well as money that they can ill afford and in secret, so we cant really judge who is generous.



I am not against foreign aid in principle, but I do agree ith messaage 32, it is a disgrace that British pensioners who have worked alll their lives and paid taxes, NI etc. are getting hypothermia and cant get adequate care in age and ill health because of the British Governments mis-management of finances. Charity begins at home. And (please forget about exchange land etc. for the moment) I wonder how many of us are here because on balance we are safer from violent crime than in the UK

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
05/11/2011 19:39

msg 40 people who rely on pensions are invariable the people who were ignorant of the benefit of savings..IMHO..

Jonesy299


Joined: 07/02/2009
Posts: 367

Message Posted:
05/11/2011 19:49

Whilst I broadly agree that wealthy people should gift a higher donation to charity (and in fairness, there are plenty of examples of those who do) I think it is always easier to say that we would (of course) when we know that the reality is we will never be in that position.. so it's a bit of a pointless argument.

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
05/11/2011 20:09

msg 42 "It's a bit of a pointless argument"





Not so, if "everyone" in the TRNC gave £1 to the Defib fund in Lapta for instance, there would be no need for tedious fund raisers ......

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
05/11/2011 20:48

Martin: Message 41 But contributory pension schemes ARE a form of saving - and most people thought they were a safe one. but they dont keep up with inflation. Dont forget that those of us who have other forms of savings have seeen them increasing lose value over the last few years. People of pension age wont have the opportunity to earn more when - of if - the economy stabilises to make up their losses. They face a far lmore miserable old age than they had worked and saved for,



Message 43 If "everyone" gave £1 to every worthwhile Charity in the TRNC there would be less need for fund raising but a lot of us would be broke! I have a favourite Charity, but I would contribute to any Charity providing at cost transport to functions for those of who cant afford (even if we wanted to) large expensive cars with dazzling headlight and therefore are stuck in at night! Why shoud I pay to raise the profile of those who dont recognise but add to my problems.?

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
05/11/2011 20:57

If wealth were more evenly distributed - both in the TRNC and Uk, and probably worldwide, there would be less poverty, better education and health care and therefore less need for Charities!!!!!

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
05/11/2011 21:09

Wealth is created not distributed,. every single one of us has the opportunity to create some for ourselves.

Why the need to take it away from people that have created it ?

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
05/11/2011 21:59

Message 4. Are you proud to be British?

karakum5c



Joined: 18/03/2008
Posts: 1021

Message Posted:
05/11/2011 22:11

The IRS in the USA is more flexable in allowing donations to be tax deductable than the HMRC in the Uk



Therefore Americans are not more generous but are merely looking at ways to avoid paying tax







Clarissa2...........better to check the facts first.

Clarissa2


Joined: 12/06/2009
Posts: 1476

Message Posted:
05/11/2011 22:38

Re: Msg 25, 36,39 & 47



One European politician once said that you could only be proud of something that you've achieved yourself.



How can you be proud of something you did nothing toward, apart from the fact of birth itself?



To me phrases like 'I'm proud to be British/French/Chinese etc.' carry very little sense.



You can say: " I'm proud that I helped people/saved lives etc.etc.etc. - something YOU have actually achieved to be proud of.

shrimp


Joined: 01/09/2010
Posts: 939

Message Posted:
05/11/2011 22:41

we had a coffee morning for the mcmillan nurses recently and each and every shop keeper in the small town where I work gave willingly a small tombola prize enabling us to raise nearly £200....so yes I think that we are a generous bunch in UK...........

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
05/11/2011 23:18

Turtle Read my lips - I said if wealth were more evenly distributed I didnt actually say it should be! Actually I was wondering if someone would come up with an idea how to do it!



Forgive my frankness but to say everyone has the opportunity to create wealth not only untrue it is crass.

Wealth can be acquired many ways - inherited, by luck in a lottery or a horse race, by theft, blackmail etc, or earned. Not everyone has the same chances to earn it - someone born in poverty in a third world country, mentally and physically handicapped with no education has far less chance than a healthy person with a high IQ and a good education , A few pull themselves up by their boot strings, but they are usually pretty ruthless and most of us fall somewhere in between.



imho it is a matter of values, : in a society where , for example, a pop star or a sportsperson is considered of far more worth than, say, a nurse, teacher or fireman, we will have inequality and therefore hardship. co

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
05/11/2011 23:22

Message49. I'll take that as a 'No' then



I, like other 'proud' british people, don't need European politicians to tell me what i've got to be proud of.



You are not British and I don't know why you claim to be. A true British person would be proud of their country - and not be afraid to say so.

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
05/11/2011 23:25

Wealth can also be lost through no fault of the individual. Lots of people onn this forum have told us how they lost money over house purchases , I lost it through a house sale, They consider it was unavidable because, let us say, the way the sytem works, I feel the same but mine occurred in a different country



And if anyone here hasnt lost money because of the financial crisis caused by mismanagement of wealth by global fianciers and Governments , I wish they would tell me how they did it!

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
05/11/2011 23:36

One can be proud of belonging to something , even a country, because of what it stands for or has done,

without necessarily having contributed.



At this time of year lots of people who were too young to have taken part in WW2, are proud that England stood up against tyranny .



We live in a country that was created because people stood up againg genocide.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
05/11/2011 23:43

BizziLizzi. Great post.





Every 'Brit' that I know is 'Proud' to be British.



In fact every foreigner that I know are proud of their own country.

Clarissa2


Joined: 12/06/2009
Posts: 1476

Message Posted:
06/11/2011 00:44

Re: Msg 54,



The problem for me with national pride is that one wants to take pride in the achievements of the nation, but wants nothing to do with its failings ,e.g. you take pride in the victories in wars, which you played no part in, but are you equally proud of the slave trade or the invasions of other countries for their regime change?!

So such patriotism - a rather selective one, enjoying the pride while ignoring any guilt - has no appeal to me.

Clarissa2


Joined: 12/06/2009
Posts: 1476

Message Posted:
06/11/2011 01:08

Re: Msg 52,



So you are going to pass your judgement on who is 'a true British person' and who is not on the basis that somebody doesn't share your patriotic feelings.

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
06/11/2011 02:07

Dictionary definition of "patriotism": Champion or lover of his (sic) country.

'

Being patriotic does not mean one has to be blind to one's counry's faults. That is chauvenism. If one is patriotic one should recognize one's country's faults and strive to rectify them - though how to do that with some of the things recent British Governments have done is beyond me!



Mmm Just realised that defintion makes me a Turkish Cypriot! Doesn't mean I have to be blind to their faults either!

steptoenoel


Joined: 27/04/2011
Posts: 116

Message Posted:
06/11/2011 02:31

sorry bizz.as for want of repeat i like to give quietly as and when to my chosen charities,both in uk and trnc.I had the occasion to meet the annonymous donors of £1000. for a defib for tatlisu.Wonderfull i thought until they made sure i knew it was them who had donated.

Clarissa2


Joined: 12/06/2009
Posts: 1476

Message Posted:
06/11/2011 02:32

Re: Msg 58,



I prefer to champion and love people, not countries.

But it is entirely my own view and is NOT the topic of this thread.



Perhaps the topic could be further discussed in the new thread : " The roots of British chauvinism and xenophobia".

bertieboss


Joined: 22/07/2011
Posts: 149

Message Posted:
06/11/2011 03:56

English, Scottish,Welsh and Irish - as with any country there are good and bad but the average Uk individual will usually give generously so long as it is a good cause.

But we need to stop our profligate politicians (of all colours) from propping up corrupt and inefficient regimes like Greece, Ireland( North and South)Spain, Italy &Portugal.

And stop the influx of wasters from eastern europe who are scamming us left right and centre.

Lets feed the poor and f**k the bankers !!! Up against the nearest wall !!

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
06/11/2011 07:50

Patriot...".A person who can shout the loudest without knowing what he is shouting about."





Mark Twain...

Clarissa2


Joined: 12/06/2009
Posts: 1476

Message Posted:
06/11/2011 17:10

Re: Msg 62,



Very good!

Have always liked Mark Twain!

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
06/11/2011 18:01

Stepto message 59. Actually so do I and they are ones I have worked for(volunteer) or personally seen the work they do so I know where the money is going.. For instance I had a blind friend who had a guide dogs, so I know how valuable they can be and support the RNIB in the UK> But do think it is verysad when people arrange functions for Charities and forget that some disadvantaged people might not be able to attend and then have the cheek to morally press them to buy tickets.



Clarissa Message 60. One can do both!



Off topic - good point and good idea!