will there be a war ?

andy-f


Joined: 03/05/2009
Posts: 1256

Message Posted:
09/11/2011 23:11

the latest spat with iran looks very worrying . the IAEA report sort of says they are developing a miliatary atomic capability , the US have produced photo evidence of a site said to be one , isreal says it will nuke iran first and russia says an attack will lead to all out war.



will cyprus with its close proximity and US/uk Bases be a safe place to be if all this kicks off ?



andy

McSteviet



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1089

Message Posted:
09/11/2011 23:21

US will never take on Iran......

kittyfun


Joined: 11/04/2011
Posts: 181

Message Posted:
09/11/2011 23:48

If it all kicks off there will be no safe place to be

He He

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
10/11/2011 07:20

There were hundreds,if not thousands of H-bombs tested above ground by USA, USSR, UK, China & France and we are all still here. Some of these bombs were huge and equivalent to a full-on war with Iran on their own.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsar_Bomba

deputydawg


Joined: 30/03/2010
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
10/11/2011 10:15

Steve, I hope you are right but, I do not feel so confident about Iran's intentions and Israel's nervousness.

TopTen


Joined: 15/04/2009
Posts: 1246

Message Posted:
10/11/2011 11:17

To be honest why are you worrying about something that may never happen,or can,t do anything about it ,if it does happen get on with life enjoy.

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
10/11/2011 11:50

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/8879903/Iran-nuclear-report-Britain-and-France-push-for-new-sanctions.html

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
10/11/2011 11:51

I don't see Iran doing anything. It will get wasted if it does. I think he is brighter than to start a war. He is playing his usual games.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
10/11/2011 12:39

Israel are just itching for a dust up! That would encompass Syria.



At that point America, Russia and China are involved. Armageddon!



Remember Israel is the plaything of The Rothschilds and there is just so much money in war.



(Just look at their History of financing wars.) Not looking good imho.



wynyardman

mickydrippin


Joined: 30/05/2011
Posts: 6

Message Posted:
10/11/2011 12:54

Here we go again, the WMD scenario brought to us by the same two countries who conned the world into going to war in Iraq. Now I have no doubt that any country that develops a nuclear programme for energy needs would`nt find it to hard to diversify into developing a nuclear weapon, but in the case of Iran I think if they were developing a nuclear weapon it would be quite a few years according to experts before they could produce, test, and eventually lob one at another country. I think it`s quite clear that the U.S. at the behest of Israel as usual (tail wagging dog )have managed to get at the IAEA the same way as they tried to get at Hans Blix over WMD`s in Iraq and we all know how he was sidelined when he realised he was being duped. Israel with their expansionist policies have every right to be concerned, but not from an attack on them by Iran, who incidentally have never attacked anyone in living history, but from the rest of the world, who are waking up to their devious ways.

ang1706


Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 570

Message Posted:
10/11/2011 13:43

Sorry post 10 you do not know your History!



Iran- who are they derived from........Persia!!!



Ever heard of the Persian Empire, battles against Greece etc!



Yes George Bush spelt Iraq wrong in 2003, he meant Iran and I would be afraid as their wonderful leader has caused this by saying 'he wants to wipe Israel off the map' does that sound like someone who wants peaceful means????



He and his cronies rigged the last elecions, subdued any opposition and are still doing so.



So yes be very afraid!!!!

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
10/11/2011 13:57

Quiz,



How many Countries have central banks, that are not controlled by The Rothschilds?



Can you name them?



wyn

deputydawg


Joined: 30/03/2010
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
10/11/2011 14:02

History tells of many bright (and cunning) leaders who became meglomaniacs. I worry not for myself but for my children and grandchildren. I am grateful that I have been able to thrive in a world which in my time had opportunity and the promise of a bright future in spite of many hardships along the way.

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
10/11/2011 14:16

Quite so deputydawg....I do not in anyway envy the youth of today, I fear the "ship of optimism" has long sailed for many ..

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
10/11/2011 14:35

Quiz,



Which two countries Central Banks, have gone under The Rothschilds control since 9/11?



wyn

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
10/11/2011 14:58

http://www.iamthewitness.com/listeners/What.2.countries.DID.NOT.have.a.Rothschild.owned.Central.Bank.htm

minertor



Joined: 14/02/2009
Posts: 1238

Message Posted:
10/11/2011 15:28

Just look at their History of financing wars.) Not looking good imho.





You've been watching Ivanhoe, aintcha Wyn.



T

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
10/11/2011 16:26

No minertor researching reality!



wyn

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
10/11/2011 16:42

@ msg 17, minertor: 9x No, sorry, 10x...



@ msg 18, wynyardman: Haha. The 'explicit Christian' Wyn, hating/despising homosexual people because of his 'love your neighbours' religion claims to research reality... Don't listen to your minister in church next Sunday, Wyn. Try to understand what you are preaching on this board.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
10/11/2011 16:47

DC,



Why dont you just shut up, and play on your board? You talk such drivel.



Answer.......Because its lonely over there.



wyn

mikelapta



Joined: 20/11/2008
Posts: 2186

Message Posted:
10/11/2011 16:47

They'll send Mr.Tony Blair to sort it out...he can recognise "weapons of mass destruction"

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
10/11/2011 16:51

Good idea Mike. He could shake hands with The Ayatolla. Look what it did for Ghaddafi!



(or Gordon Brown, come to that)



wyn

brize


Joined: 06/11/2011
Posts: 1

Message Posted:
10/11/2011 21:28

War,

It may or may not happen. If it does the only thing to do is put your head between your legs and kiss your ass goodby.

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
10/11/2011 22:15

in a word no , to many flip flop wearers have been melted down , ? does the world need any more tarmac ,

pawson


Joined: 01/08/2011
Posts: 11

Message Posted:
10/11/2011 23:46

References to the Rothschilds here are a little misleading.There should be no state of Israel. It is an artificial construct of a Post War World in a state of shock at what a supposedly civilised nation could do

to an ethnic minority. There was no Israel before the War, there should not have been one afterwards.What there should have been was a democratic Palestine.

I was brought up to believe in Israel, where Israeli farms were green and productive and Arab ones were barren, arid and unproductive. Of course all that was propaganda, if you feed anything it will grow and vice versa.

The man in charge of Iran terrifies me but not a whole lot more than the Israeli leaders...if everyone talks then bombs are superfluous.We should ensure that an EU in it's deaththrows lets America know that enough is enough and that the support for a state of Israel is on a knife's edge. Do that and Iran might just be amazed enough to back down. Watch this space.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
10/11/2011 23:50

Re-mess 25,



You are Pikey and i claim my fiver,



Paul.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
11/11/2011 00:17

Not sure anything can be done to prevent Iran possessing WOMD. Can Israel move without US approval and backing. Right now it seems that Netanyahu is loathed by Obama. Unlikely to get approval whilst Obama is commander in Chief.

Ahmadinejads rhetoric is far too war like. Our words can become our deeds. He has repeatedly stated that he wants to wipe Israel off the map. He may become bound by his words, which may be spurred on by religious exuberance.

Is he capable of violence? Young children who steal have their arms crushed so they completely lose mobility. Women are stoned to death. Iran arms and funds Hezbollah and Hamas, and continues to destabilise Iraq. He is not frightened of sanctioning death.

Saying that Irans leaders may grow up if they get WOMD, although I think it unlikely. Pakistan possess nucleur weapons and they have not let loose, although I am really not confident it will always stay this way.

deputydawg


Joined: 30/03/2010
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
11/11/2011 12:22

Unintended, negligent disharge, is also something to consider, if you like to worry ! After recent events perhaps the South have shelved any ambitions to have an atomic stockpile ?

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
11/11/2011 12:25

Msg25 pawson



The answer to the question in msg 10 is Iran, Cuba and North Korea. After 9/11 Iraq and Afghanistan



banking went under Rothschild control.



Mayer Amschell Rothschild famously said....".Give me control of a nations money, andI care not who makes her laws"



Now it doesnt take a brain surgeon to work out where we are going. They have made their billions from financing both sides in wars! World domination, is the gameplan.



Just my opinion,



wynyardman

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
11/11/2011 13:01

Iran is not stupid, they saw that Iraq (our bestest friend) was invaded because she DIDNT have WMD.

It will not be lost in Iran that that was the same Iraq whom we helped to try to bring down Iran in a War that cost millions of lives.



So one of the two countries shouting the most about going to war with Iran is the only one to have used Atomic bombs to incinerate cities,and the other one has illegal nuclear weapons itself(Dont remember - UN inspection teams or we will invade , there!!). And you wonder why Iran tells such hypocrites to get lost.

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
11/11/2011 13:03

If that idiot in Iran does get WMD,s you might as well all start digging your own graves because he is determined to rule the world.His big hero is a man who tried it in 1939 and anyone who can deny that the hollocaust never existed is definitely 50pence short of a pound. Without using neuclear weapons I doubt if Israel would have the conventional weapons to take out Iran,Iraq tried for 8 years and failed.That is not to say that Israel would not try and stop him.He out of all the crackpot rulers is the one I feel will start world war 3 if he is allowed to procede.They have already tested nueclear triggers supplied by that other two faced country Pakistan so there seems little doubt in my mind that his programme is decideately not "peaceful"It is time the west "shut the gate before the horse bolts".....

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
11/11/2011 13:17

It seems to me Iran not having nuclear weapons will cause war. You seem to suffer from inverse logic. What stopped war with Russia was the fact that she had these very same weapons. What allowed the only power USA to use them against Japan was the fact that she did not have any.



If Israel has these weapons why should Iran not? Does the west have a higher moral authority over these weapons? After all, UK, France and USA all have them. You will do better to call for Israel to disarm her nuclear weapons rather then be hypocrite and call for Iran not to have any to defend herself. Where exactly did Iran say they will take over the world?



America and Israel could not disarm a bunch towel heads, what chance do they have of taking on Iran? Libya or even Syria yes sure. Iran I hope not because we will all suffer and deservedly for being do selfish and blind to our own self importance.



Of course there is the other heroic method of blasting them from a distance. The heroic

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
11/11/2011 13:21

Coachie,



Afterdinnerjacket or whatever his name is sure is a nutcase, but the real power is with The Ayatollah's



The true evil comes from the Jewish Lobby in Washington and Tel Aviv.



Israel is alleged to have 400 nuclear warheads at Dimona by a nuclear power station. (Each 100



times the bomb dropped on Hiroshima)



Dimona is only 200 miles from Cyprus



wyn

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
11/11/2011 13:22

I think the gate is open, and we are just waiting for the horse... http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/iaea-says-foreign-expertise-has-brought-iran-to-threshold-of-nuclear-capability/2011/11/05/gIQAc6hjtM_story.html

Tonyta


Joined: 11/06/2011
Posts: 122

Message Posted:
11/11/2011 13:41

Remember the Cuban crisis, maybe not, no point in worrying about something you cannot do anything about. The beauty about nuclear weapons is that there is no hiding place. This means that the guy/gal who presses the button is also vulnerable.



In a normal war (if there is such a thing) the politicians sit back and in safety assess the "collateral damage" They then send other people’s children out to die.



Nuclear means they and their own family is part of that collateral, as such they will not use this option.



Enjoy your life, no one knows when it will end.

rocky


Joined: 17/10/2007
Posts: 1749

Message Posted:
11/11/2011 16:48

if and when the countries of the eastern med kick off nukes cyprus and most of Eastern Med will be wasteland for many many years, and thats only a start

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
11/11/2011 17:44

tonyta..the thing is there is something that can be done about it,but nobody wants to be responsible for the outcome.The idiot is not afraid of being vunerable,its there religion to kill any non-believers before they go meet their maker and their virgins.All he wants to be remembered for is the person who obliterated Israel and half of the middle east with it.



Yfred..I do not see any country making a pre-emptive strike on Iran for her to need wmd,s to protect herself.India and Pakistan have these weapons and they hate one anothers guts,but they also have some sane politicians running their countries,not a lunatic.....

andy-f


Joined: 03/05/2009
Posts: 1256

Message Posted:
11/11/2011 18:43

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/greece/greece-dependent-iranian-oil/20111111



well they think they are in the brown stuff now but just wait till the iranian tankers are stopped from leaving their ports !



andy

basheer



Joined: 22/12/2008
Posts: 949

Message Posted:
11/11/2011 19:18

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=twelvers&source=web&cd=7&sqi=2&ved=0CFcQFjAG&url=http%3A%2F%2Fslantedright.blogspot.com%2F2006%2F07%2Fshiite-twelvers-chaos-and-mahdi.html&ei=VFe9TrXvGNLE8QOzrfWxBA&usg=AFQjCNGmPpTEfW6J1UYHb-tC3hY8ZwBw1g&sig2=RMFlGMvKwNDR7B3MaWZF1A

they the iranians believe the return of the mahdi to clean the world of evil can only happen in a chaos world to rid of mankind and start over so to start a war that would lead to his return so basically the iranians (most of them) want to die to cleanse the world and are not afraid of being nuked if it meant the return of their long awaited mahdi ot cleanse us all of the surface of this world

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
11/11/2011 19:44

Sorry guys.



Not wishing to look on the bleak side. Reality is just that.



Be afraid. Be very afraid.



Personally, I am of good cheer, but who wants to hear that?



wyn

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
11/11/2011 19:48

cheers wyn , its not gonna happen , the people of iran might be brainwashed , but the leader knows what the out come will be .

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
11/11/2011 20:50

Rolo.



Look at History. Just look at the track record of these guys.



NOT good reading!



What was it about a leopard, and its spots! Pass the rose tinted specs!



Must say, its nice to have a balanced debate! Must go having a garlic slug barbneque.



wyn

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
12/11/2011 00:30

msge 39



This is an interesting post Basheer. I know nothing about the return of the mahdi. It sounds like there are similarities in the outcome (destruction and the return of the chosen one) to the christian belief that the final days will be played out in the holy land. There are many in the west praying that war will break out in the middle east.



I know from my own research in to adult maturation psychology, that the development of a theological/ideological consciousness is accompanied by the heightening of guilt. This is good news, although at this stage, the guilt is often only expressed within the same religious group (later on in ones development, the guilt mutates in to a healthier respect for humanity). Where it gets tricky, is when a person does not transcend smoothly from the previous stage of development.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
12/11/2011 00:31

The proceeding system experiences shame but not guilt. Individuals who don't transcend smoothly can use religion (or an ideology) as a vehicle to express their power. They are not internally checked by guilt, they can be pushed to violent behavior, especially when they experience shame and when their power is challenged. These people are dangerous. The guy in Norway who recently went postal, is an example of an individual who expressed his ideology violently and showed no guilt or remorse. My real concern is that Ahamadinejad is of the same mode. The signs are there.

mesunshine


Joined: 22/10/2011
Posts: 47

Message Posted:
12/11/2011 01:23

I am an Iranian,,, escaped my country for it is a prison, but I can tell you my assumptions.

The leader, Khameneiy is not seeking war, there are lots of political cracks on the body of the regime and they know perfectly well people will not fight for them. They may have the support of Sepah and the army, and Basij, but they are not reliable enough.

Basij people seek money and the advantages they take from the regime, as long as there is money, they will fight and serve the regime purposes, and if there is no money by the possible sanctions on Iranian Central Bank well they are off the game. Sepah owns most of big projects and they make a lot of money, legally and illegally of course. And they care for money most. The army can't last long if a war breaks out. And people!! not supportive at all.

The gov is just showing the teeth, and we hope it's just political arguments.. Iranian people will pay the price of a hated dictatorship they have to bare. This regime is a shame for us all

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
12/11/2011 01:27

msge 37



"the thing is there is something that can be done about it,but nobody wants to be responsible for the outcome"



You are spot on Coachie. The invasion of Iraq has made it impossible to take military action against Iran. Nobody wants to get it wrong. Israel is on its own. If Bush was still in charge of the US then Israel probably would have got the support.

Cameron and Sarkozy were extremely brave in their decision over Libya (notice Obama hesitated and had to be persuaded on humanitarian grounds). If they had got it wrong their political careers would have been over, period.



I think the only way the Iranian government can be toppled (unless Israel gets really scared and goes in) is if the Iranian people themselves can get organised and topple their rulers.

mesunshine


Joined: 22/10/2011
Posts: 47

Message Posted:
12/11/2011 01:32

msg 37...this is not the matter of religion any more. the regime is using this trick for the people inside and many not buy that any more. Khameneiy is seeking power,if they can't get it right, they'll get it through terror, just like how they roll inside the country.

Wiping Isreal off the map is Ahmidinejad propaganda for the extremists. He always bluffs and tell lies... Don't take him serious, we, Iranian don't. You have the luxury to laugh at him, take him as a big joke, but what he says and does makes us cry.

Hippo


Joined: 02/02/2007
Posts: 2070

Message Posted:
12/11/2011 05:38

Cameron and Sarkozy were extremely brave in their decision over Libya (notice Obama hesitated and had to be persuaded on humanitarian grounds). If they had got it wrong their political careers would have been over, period.



On a slightly different note I wonder who will get the contracts for rebuilding and future projects?



Bosnia- America made and is making millions of dollars in the aftermath

Iraq-like wise

Afghanistan-likewise



OK Crazy bush is not there now but the controlling Zionist lobby is.

astonmartin


Joined: 12/09/2011
Posts: 3

Message Posted:
12/11/2011 07:19

MES 6

hope not just done the garden.we can not do anything about it anyway chill out and go for a swim .

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
12/11/2011 08:13

msge 47



"Don't take him serious, we, Iranian don't."



I hope you are right. I am mindful that many Germans laughed at Hitler before he unleashed his menace on the world.



msge 48



Hippo, your cynicism towards those interventions is exactly the reason why we are unlikely to see any western military action in Iran. People wont stomach it. Likewise the US cant afford any more interventions. According to the cost of war website the US has so far spent 1,276,726,324,840 dollars on wars since 2001 and this figure continues to rise. As we know the US is 13 trillion in debt. It makes Italys debt look like pocket money (well not quite ).



Yes the zionist lobby is a concern.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
12/11/2011 08:48

I hope you guys are right. Peace in our time eh!



30 years ago Brezinski wrote that America should position itself to be in a position to take advantage of the



mineral wealth (say oil) in The Caspian Basin. Now take a look at your maps of the area. Iran is just the



filling in the sandwich which is Iraq and Afghanistan.



Why have the Americans built such a huge (self sufficient) Embassy in Iraq (money no object and secret)?



I will try to find Brezinkski's book.........something like "world chessboard"



Breaking up the USSR, Iraq and Afghanistan was planned 30 years ago.



Its about oil, wealth and the Agenda is run by The Askenazi Jews in Washington, Israel and London.



wyn

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
12/11/2011 09:01

If you want to know The Jewish Agenda for the middle east ........read



The Grand Chessboard Zibnew Branzinksi.





As Israeli keeps saying, we tell Obama what to do, not the other way round!



wyn

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
12/11/2011 13:06

Hi Wyn



I am sure this is well up your street.

A friend of mine sent me this yesterday and I will get to watch it over the weekend sometime.



http://thrivemovement.com/

Garythegeezer


Joined: 05/02/2007
Posts: 102

Message Posted:
12/11/2011 14:09

With all the doom and gloom on this thread and with Europe pressing the financial suicide button

perhaps the end of the world prediction for 2012 was right!

Geoff1131


Joined: 12/07/2007
Posts: 276

Message Posted:
12/11/2011 14:37

Well we had all better make this christmas the best ever. 20/12/2012 could be the start of armagedon.



And i bet me and a few others will still not have our deeds.



Oh well!!!!!!!

ang1706


Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 570

Message Posted:
12/11/2011 14:47

I do think there is a lot to concern ourselves with, but I think this is going to be another Cold War as Israel and USA has not got enough resourses to mount a sustained campaign and Iran is a huge country.



However a strike on their facilities might stir up a rebellion as regime change will have to come from within!



Israel not only has Iran to worry about but Hamas and Hezbollah all very heavily armed and backed by......................Iran!!

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
12/11/2011 14:54

msge 54



garythegeezer



......and we haven't even mentioned climate change. Climate sceptics argue that measurements of temperature have been taken around large cities, so we can expect temperature increases. A recently published study of the most rural parts of the earth, has shown that we have seen a 0.7 increase in temperatures in remote settings.



Apparently there were two Mayan calenders. The most credible one (if there even is any credibility) ended last month, so many believe we have already entered the new age.

deputydawg


Joined: 30/03/2010
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
12/11/2011 15:00

We should be OK until Christmas 2011 then ? In view of the foregoing I delayed buying Christmas Cards. Hope it will be be "Hark the Herald Angels sing, Glory to the newborn King, Peace (and not pieces) on Earth and mercy mild, Glory to the newborn Child, God/Allah and sinners reconciled !

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
12/11/2011 15:51

msge 57



Correction - just read an article on climate change which shows a temperature increase of 0.1% in the northern hemisphere. This would certainly challenge my assertion on msge 57.



Sajjad Haghpanah worked for the Iran equivalent of M15. He says "He said "................the (Iranian) revolutionary guard had trained for years for a ground invasion (of its nucleur sites), which it believes is the only way to permanently destroy the sites. Tehran hoped to draw the US into a guerilla war. They want to suck the Americans into another Iraq"



The columnist goes on to say 'A ground assault is out of the question, but Iran could plunge the world economy into crisis by closing the straits of Hormuz, through which 40% of the worlds oil passes.........this threat has prompted caution from even the most hawkish arab nations.



Arab nations are concerned that Israels sabre-rattling is dictating the agenda in Washington.

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
12/11/2011 17:23

Mesunshine ..if what you say is true,why has somebody not taken a pot shot at him.I am sure there must be a few loyalists who would love to but cannot get any inside help...Like you say though if he was removed the ayatolah would would just put another idiot in his place. we shall have to wait and see what transpires...

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
12/11/2011 18:47

message 1: "will there be a war?"



the us and/or israel may have a crack at iran's enrichment programme, rocket plants

and its trigger test facilities, military research bases etc



will that stop iran?

of course not! some sites are far underground or may be unknown



but teheran would suffer a huge blow including damage to its infrastructure

while the likely outcome will be a blizzard of rockets fired into northern israel by hizbollah,

even if it was an american cruise 'n stealth attack not an israeli fighter-bomber operation



for all the furore, many arabs in the region will secretly rejoice:

iran is regarded with suspicion in many sunni-dominated countries and few will shed tears



without going into moral issues (since most of us seemed to have made up our minds)

there is logic involved...think kill-or-cure operation to combat a deadly disease



but if "war" means boots on the ground, no, not in a month of fridays/saturdays/sundays

HairyPeggy01


Joined: 01/09/2010
Posts: 24

Message Posted:
13/11/2011 00:09

Except that Iran is governed by a crowd of religous nutters who seem to delight in doing the unpredicted, no matter how extreme

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
13/11/2011 00:32

hp message 62,



with the greatest of respect I think you have the wrong end of the stick



not for one moment do the planners in america or israel think teheran would be crazy enough

to unleash atomic weapons for a laugh

...but to impress, threaten, intimidate, ah there lies the rub



the us sees teheran as a sponsor of terrorism, a malign influence as it were and even scaring

vital us allies in arabia far more than it does tel-aviv

while israel like certain other countries in the region puts its own security first with being at all

influenced by what others may decide is appropriate for it



finally to call those who control iran or even their outspoken front-man religious nutters is again

to miss the point...

it is not the religiousness of a regime or the sanity of particular individuals which is at issue,

but how an autocracy acts to divert internal dissent ...with a blast of nationalist sabre-rattling

Donaldson


Joined: 13/05/2011
Posts: 86

Message Posted:
13/11/2011 01:47

During the first Gulf war I was stationed in the NATO Primary War Headquarters and got the chance to ask the Commander British Forces why, as we had Special Forces teams in place, we didn't assassinate Saddam Hussein.

His answer was that the Western Intelligence analysts could predict Saddam's reactions with a fair degree of accuracy, but that if he was deposed or killed, Iranian troops would immediately roll across the border. Once the two countries were combined, this would result in the biggest standing army in the world, in a country ruled by a council of religious fanatics, whose reactions nobody could predict.

The Ayatollahs are still there, but now they have Amedinajad as a figurehead to take any flak that may come Iran's way. I can't believe that they would take the country into a fight that they couldn't possibly win, but it wouldn't be the first time in world history that this had happened.

Donaldson


Joined: 13/05/2011
Posts: 86

Message Posted:
13/11/2011 01:53

Even if they lose their marbles completely, they won't have enough warheads to lob them around indiscriminately, and I would suspect that Cyprus will be fairly far down their list of priority targets.

If a war does start, even a nuclear one, there's absolutely nothing we can do about it, so unless you want to start digging a bunker in which you could sit out a nuclear winter, I suggest we all just stop worrying something over which we have no control and have another brandy sour.

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
13/11/2011 03:20

don,



agree about the brandy sour but think neither iran nor its "enemies"

actually want what you would call a war in any conventional sense ie

john wayne, grunts, boots on the ground, all over by xmas etc etc etc



the ayatollah regime needs to promote itself in the region albeit using

preferably some sort of proxy entanglements I guess



while the two "enemies" merely want to teach it a costly lesson in order

to degrade its capabilities



let's hope the north korean plant that makes the inertial guidance systems

for "iran's" mrbm's doesn't have any "three-door ford cortina fridays"



only joking (I hope)

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
13/11/2011 10:22

Msg 53 Spot on! Click on and read "The Problem"



Well I'm off. Got my tent. Which way is St Pauls?



Don'y say you were not warned!



wyn

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
13/11/2011 11:28

msge 66





"for "iran's" mrbm's doesn't have any "three-door ford cortina fridays"



This is a concern. An Iranian nucleur scientist who defected said that the Bushehr reactor is unsafe. He says that the reactor has been built by second class engineers who have bolted together Russian and German technologies which were developed during different eras, and that it sits in one of the worlds most seismically active areas and could not withstand a major earthquake.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
13/11/2011 11:51

Msg 68.



That really isnt too important, because it isnt going to be around long enough to matter.



I see that they have been moving the centrifuges into caves.



Israel have taken delivery of bunker busting bombs, from America



It seems a pre emptive strike is inevitable, and Iran says that Dimona is already targetted.



The issue is how can any retalliation be contained!



wyn

deputydawg


Joined: 30/03/2010
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
13/11/2011 12:08

Wyn. Enjoy your trip to St Pauls. The last time I was there many years ago it was for the laying up of the Regimental Colours of the Middlesex Regiment and to honour their dead throughout their long history. When the parade, including the Colour Party guard with fixed bayonets, arrived at the steps of St Pauls they were met by a mob of ranting beatniks defending the steps and waving placards showing insults and protesting about "sidearms and flags being taken to a church". The parade continued as if they did not exist and did not lose even one step or a second of the laid down timings as it marched straight over the top of them. When I cleaned my gun boots (13 studs in each sole) back at Chelsea barracks afterwards I can recall reflecting on the names I had been called but I cannot recall any mention of a "Human Rights act". The soldiers sorted out the "Beat" part and the police thereafter the "nik" part !

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
13/11/2011 12:36

msge 63



“it is not the religiousness of a regime or the sanity of particular individuals which is at issue,



but how an autocracy acts to divert internal dissent ...with a blast of nationalist sabre-rattling”



Could you explain a little more what you mean by this Andre



Autocracies don’t like alternative views. In some regimes this autocracy is quite extreme, and the degree can tell us something about the mindset. Take the Taleban, they destroyed some beautiful Buddhist monasteries simply because they could not tolerate a different view. Just to see them was enough to create a strong internal reaction. It strikes me that the Iranian leadership is quite similar to the Taleban. Look at the way it treats its people. There is no room for an alternative view.



Such an autocratic mindset tells us that their mind is likely to be full up with a strong ideology, you have to be, in order to reject everything else. Its my way or the highway.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
13/11/2011 12:36

The problem is that Iran is choosing to export its ideology. This suggests that there is a lot of energy in the system. So what is the ideology. I doubt if it is a materialistic ideology, its not a communist ideology and we know for certain its not a pluralistic one. Its chosen to target two countries who have opposing ideology to their own.



This sort of mindset suggests to me the following types of motivation – ‘just retribution and punishment, agents of divine will on earth, righteous defence of sacred truth, cleanse evil ways, force conversations so as we can teach you the right way, missionary self sacrificial zeal, fights the ‘wrong’ authority to the death, demands obedience.



All in all this is pretty dangerous.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
13/11/2011 12:38

msge 68



Lets hope this is wrong Wyn and I hope I am very wrong in my message of 72

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
13/11/2011 13:09

correction to msge 71



I meant Buddhism statues not monasteries

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
13/11/2011 15:27

ilc message 71:



it is easy to portray all of this as east versus west, islam versus the others

or even bizarrely, the machinations of plotters in fanciful conspiracy theories



it is much more about the difficult internal contradictions of the iran regime,

finding a popular outlet through bogus ultranationalism and cod religiosity



on another note, turkey's "zero problems with neighbours" fell apart when

the grisley character of assad's dictatorship became too obvious to ignore:

so it would be be interesting to see what ankara would make of an iran

where protest became unstoppable, unlike the supression of two years ago



syria is the hinge on which the mid east turns, viz. lebanon, palestine etc

...so iran's "controversial" president has already been discounting the likely

implosion of the assad dictatorship by gentle words of support to the risen

masses over there

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
13/11/2011 16:04

Don't believe all about Iran you read in the media.

We have a very good Iranian friend and the bullshit from both Iran and EU make us smile. Contary to belief not all Iranians are suicide bombers or hate westerners.

The young people in Iran are waiting to have another reveloution! They don't want Iran as it is now any more than we do.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
13/11/2011 17:26

msg70 deputydawg.



I take my hat off to you guys especially today. Unfortunatley what you describe is the way of the world

nowadays.



wyn

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
13/11/2011 17:29

blade76.



I only hope that the young Iranians get their opportunities to express their world view.



I suspect the old school will not give peace a chance.



wyn

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
13/11/2011 17:29

blade..like I said earlier,lets hope they dont try to shut the gate after the horse has bolted..i.o.w. dont leave it too late before they make their move..If they were to start a few problems in Iran,the ayatollahs wont be able to help Syria,and Hezbolla so much..

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
14/11/2011 19:46

The Republican front runner for the next US presidential election has stated that Obama is too soft on Iran. He says if he got in he would stop Iran building a bomb (might be too late anyway), he would use tough sanctions at first but then he would not hesitate to send in American troops.



He also said his country would not give any aid money to any countries unless they thoroughly explained to him what they would do with it.

Do they have any money to give anyway? Surely they have to ask the creditors of their 14 trillion debt what they think?



On a better note it was good to see the Arab league voting to expel Syria from the community if the violence did not cease immediately. Can you believe that the the Syrians called the arab league a 'Zionist tool'. I bet the Palestinians are struggling to get their head round that one.



The Turkish embassy was attacked in Damascus on Saturday. I bet that was enough to get Erdogan snarling behind his desk.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
14/11/2011 21:05

Ilovecyprus Msg80.



I beg to differ that it is a good point that the Arab League have threatened to eject Syria.



They have rejected the threat out of hand.. "It would start an earthquake in The Middle East" they said.



Is that not another step down the slippery path, that will end up, with the direct involvement of



Iran with the West. That most certainly would involve Russia and China. Not a very promising scenario.



I hope for a happy ending, but with Tony "Weapons of Mass Destruction" striding centre stage" I fear the



worst.

andy-f


Joined: 03/05/2009
Posts: 1256

Message Posted:
14/11/2011 21:40

what worries me is that the US decided a war on terror was required to rid the world of evil sadam and his weapons of mas destruction so they invaded iraq and deposed of sadam .



next they said they new where osama binladen was afganistan so they and nato invaded here and took the fight to the taliban but all along he was sunning himself in a garrison town in pakistsan . all the while the US and nato have built up a huge military force that sits east and west if iran !



have we all been hood winked here and was it all a pentagon plan to invade the real evil empire of the world iran? cost a lot of money to get all those forces east and west of iran only to send the boys home leaving the real threat intact.

Mischu


Joined: 07/09/2011
Posts: 7

Message Posted:
14/11/2011 21:46

Check out this link - very interesting!



http://www.sott.net/articles/show/237612-Matthew-Gould-and-the-Plot-to-Attack-Iran





Matthew Gould and the Plot to Attack Iran

Craig Murray

craigmurray.org.uk

Mon, 14 Nov 2011 06:33 CST





[Editor's note: Former UK ambassador to Uzbekistan, Craig Murray, has had many of his articles published by in the mainstream press over the past 15 years. Over the past few weeks however, all mainstream press outlets (including the supposedly 'liberal' ones) that were contacted with a view to publishing this particular piece refused to do so, for unspecified reasons.]

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
14/11/2011 21:49

msge 80 Wyn



It was previously unthinkable that Arab countries would unite against an autocratic leader. With so many countries coming together to denounce Assad this has to be good news.



"It would start an earthquake in the middle east" - that is just bluster. Who are Syria going to fight against? Can they? Why would Iran, Russia and China get involved?



I am sure Turkey would have quite a lot to say about that.



In any case, how much longer will the Sunni serfs take orders from the ruling alawite minority.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
14/11/2011 23:52

ilovecyprus, Msg84.



I believe the gameplan is The Caspian Basin and the mineral wealth., and clear access.



That is why I believe Russia and China will be involved.



Nuclear proliferation will be the excuse, no doubt led by Israel. Just look at a map of the area.



AS advised earier Zibnew Brezinkski's book "The Grand Chessboard" is essential reading.



wyn

Clarissa2


Joined: 12/06/2009
Posts: 1476

Message Posted:
15/11/2011 01:07

Re: Msg85,

Wyn,

Zbigniew Brzezinski.



I also recommend to read Paul Wolfowitz * (Wolfowitz Doctrine) and to watch "The Power of Nightmares"

Very interesting!



* Douglas's bed time reading - I'm sure.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
15/11/2011 11:13

mischu msg83,



Very interesting posting. Certainly food for thought.



Clarissa2 Thank you. I will certainly take a look..



Sky News more doom and gloom this morning on Syria. King Abdullah now told Assad to go.



wyn

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
15/11/2011 11:48

msge 85



Wyn



You might be right about the Capsian sea, but I cant see what is wrong with Assad going. It sends out another massage that dictatorship does not work.

Russia is looking to capture the Capsian by creating the Eurasia zone. Will Turkey get involved? Will China challenge them for the Capsian minerals? Not sure. China seems to be quite happy in working with Australia, Africa and South America to get their raw materials.

Things might be settling down though and each country is developing its own unique proposition so that they dont clash. Russia makes its wealth exporting raw materials, China from manufacturing and the US is probably going to make its money from finance, high tech and experience based solutions. Of course, they may very well clash as they venture in to each others territory.



I am not sure I would want to be guided by a book written 30 years ago. Also I think Adam Curtis describes the dysfunctional nature of our personality very well, however

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
15/11/2011 11:52

I would also want to consult authors who describe the better side of our nature. Jeremy Rifkinds the empathic civilisation is a good read, and his new book the 'third industrial revolution' may show us the way forward. Interestingly he is currently working with the European Union to completely revamp the way we source energy. It is exciting and hopeful stuff.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
15/11/2011 13:09

ilovecyprus.



Brezinkski was advisor to two Presidents of America, and it was his remit to tell them where America should be at a given point in time. It was his analysis that seems to have been the basis of where we are today. It is that which leads me to believe that war with Iran is inevitable.



There is no doubt (imho) that world domination (New world order) is the name of the game, and it is being

persued by The Jewish Lobby (Ashkenazi). Fractional Banking is the basis of it all and should be overthrown.



As to human nature, I gave up on it many years ago (Buying a villa in Cyprus, did not help). Nowadays I am

happy to be an innocent observer of the human race, and still be able to shake my head, and tut!.



It does not stop me hoping for the best!...................... What was that about history repeating itself



wyn

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
15/11/2011 14:08

msge 90



Wyn



Yours is an interesting post Wyn. I am enjoying our debate and you have got me thinking.

I am not convinced about a new world order though, because it would take a lot of coordination to pull this off. This is not to say that there are not groups like the bilderberg who are plotting their own survival.



Human consciousness is a self organising emergent system, as is everything else in nature. Humans adapt to the environment as it emerges and our consciousness adapts in tandem. So we are adaptors rather than planners. Take Manchester as an example. Manchester was never created by planners, they did not exist. People flocked to Manchester at the time of the industrial revolution and people self organised in to neighbourhoods of the rich and poor. It does not mean we cant plan, it just means we just cannot predict that, which is going to emerge and throw us off course. Brezinski would never have predicted a growing number of Americans who put principles before war.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
15/11/2011 14:11

The author Howard Bloom says that the universe seems to be repurposing itself to higher levels of order and structure. Human systems seem to work in the same way. The monetary crisis that we see is this process of repurposing and it will get sorted out and we will move to a next level and the next and so on. Of course, it is touch and go about whether humans will make it through as we are at the edge of destruction, however if we can get past these critical moments I think our species can look forward to a fantastic future. Have a read of what Ray Kurzweil says. His vision of the future, which is one of many possibilities, is absolutely amazing.



So how has consciousness developed in relation to the environmental conditions:



Survival – Feeding, fornicating, fighting, fleeing then on to…

Tribal – survival of the clan and the spirits are our guide then…

Feudalism – Power and riches go to the toughest then….

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
15/11/2011 14:12

Our social structure and current world disorder is forcing people to operate at the levels I have just on msge 92. This is why things look bad at the moment, however three new levels of consciousness seem to be emerging. The integralist and spiritual level are a worldview. At these levels our nationalistic identities start to really loosen up. Our egos are less threatened.



Relativist – We are all equal and share lots of similarities. Love can conquer all

Integralist – We face immense problems that can only be solved through collaboration and group intelligence (often people confuse this thinking for a move to a new world order, although lots of people at the lower levels are still grabbing power)

Spiritualist – We explore our mind and internal experience. We focus on being rather than having. We integrate all parts of our system to move to wholeness not separation.



Full integration of the last two levels might take 200 years or so, so we might not make it.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
15/11/2011 14:16

whoops I missed at bit out. These following two levels are between feudalism and the relativist. People at these two levels of consciousness presently hold the worlds power and wealth.



Traditionalism – The great religions and beuracracy. Nationalistic identity. My country my nation.

Materialism – Craft and cunning in order to gain the most toys (power) then…

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
15/11/2011 17:38

ilovecyprus,



Thank you for your response, and kind comments. I too was enjoying our debate, although I do not want us being accused of hogging the thread. Some people forget that if the subject is to their liking, they do not have to get involved. I have not read Howard Bloom (but I will) but what you seem to be commenting on is the expansion of human consciousness. This is what the Mayans said would happen around 2012. I could

agree that there are signs of such a movement, I despair of the actions of man.



I see little movement in men, who have power. Money is power. It is hugely corrupting, and has been down the ages. Too much power (money) is now in the hands of too few. It is difficult to see how this can be reversed.



Spirituality seems to thrive where people do not have much in the way of assets and money. I personally

an very fond of Thailand, and it is the spirituality of the people that I find attractive.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
15/11/2011 17:43

I agree with you totally that the world needs to change...the question is how?....if it is to be for the better.



But back to the thread. War is one way.....the debate is ...can it ever be for better.



I fear that we are well down the path to finding out, and I have little doubt that it will be based around the countries of the Middle East.



I think I will give Dimona a wide berth for the next few years. Just my humble opinion.



wyn

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
15/11/2011 18:51

msge 96



Hi wyn



Yeah people are going to start talking if we keep this dialogue up.



You will love Howard Bloom. I think he is the greatest thinker of our time and he has completely reshaped how I see the world. He is an interesting guy. He built his own computer from scratch at 13 and he ended up being the manager for a number of pop stars including Prince. In fact he helped Prince launch his purple rain film. I am sure you remember the film In between he studied biology, history, psychology and physics.



His first book the 'Lucifer principle' he dives deep in to the darker nature of our psyche. It is simply the best book on the darker side of human behaviour. His second book shows how all humans are linked together as one global brain. It is quite a remarkable book and he uses bacteria to prove his point. His latest book which is the defence of capitalism is called the 'genius in the beast'.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss6IUTxQI88

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
15/11/2011 18:59

Wyn..I saw on the net the other day that China And Russia are condeming Irans plans for nueclear bomb,and even Iran is having a rethink of its policies on nueclear developement.It could all be load of hot air from Iran just to cool things down a little.I do think that Russia and China are both concerned about the situation.They both announced that they agreed with Obama,which is something you dont often see...,,

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
15/11/2011 19:51

Hi Coachie msg98.



Point noted. The problem is when did Israel ever listen to anyone? Even if it is just a perceived threat to them



they are likely to press the button, and argue afterwards. Netanyahu is just itching to have a go.!



wyn

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
15/11/2011 20:25

@ msg 99, wynyardman: (...) The problem is when did Israel ever listen to anyone? Even if it is just a perceived threat to them they are likely to press the button, and argue afterwards. (...)



▶ If Israel would try to argue afterwards - there wouldn't be a state of Israel anymore. Indeed, Israel doesn't listen to anyone. What good did it ever do to Israel(ites) when they listened, waited, hoped - and got killed en masse?

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
15/11/2011 20:48

Coachie msg98 China and Russia have not even joined the sanctions on Iran. That would be a good starting point.



DC I presume you are referring to the mass murder of Jews pre 1948. Was not the state of Israel not

formed until 1948?..It is the hardliners behind the formation of Israel that are the real problem!





wyn

Clarissa2


Joined: 12/06/2009
Posts: 1476

Message Posted:
15/11/2011 21:10

Re: Iran tensions



It also doesn't help the equation and makes the US very twitchy that not so long ago Turkey declared 'eternal friendship' with Iran.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
15/11/2011 21:13

@ msg 101, wynyardman: (...) Was not the state of Israel not formed until 1948?..It is the hardliners behind the formation of Israel that are the real problem! (...)



▶ 1948: right. Hardliners behind the formation: that's why the state of Israel was formed. Hardliners after the formation: that's why the state of Israel still exists.

Israel cannot afford to lose ONE battle or ONE war - and they know it. I hope those fine, modern Arab neighbour states and farther away states (Iran) will remember and realise it too.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
15/11/2011 21:25

DC Point taken.



Does that give them the right to have (alleged) 400 nuclear warheads each 100 times as powerful as

those dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and the rest of the world sitting on the edge of their seats,

whilst they continue to steal land from their neighbours, and threaten countries which JUST MAY hold the

same nuclear ambitions?



They are the greatest threat to peaceful coexistance that the world has ever seen.



wyn

andy-f


Joined: 03/05/2009
Posts: 1256

Message Posted:
15/11/2011 21:49

last night on euronews they interviewed some hi ranking retired military person from isreal and he was asked point blank " Will isreal srtike iran "?



he smilled first and then said only if our leaders are mad . he said if isreal was to do this she would be finished as all the arab/muslim nations would unite against it.



he also said he new its military leaders know they would not be able to sustain a campaign against iran , this would not be like any war we have ever fought before and we dont have the man power or means to do it ( or something like that )

andy

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
15/11/2011 22:01

andyf,



Did this high ranking retired military person mention Israels "Sampson Option"?



wyn

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
15/11/2011 22:03

@ msg 104, wynyardman: (...) They are the greatest threat to peaceful coexistance that the world has ever seen. (...)



▶ They, Wyn, they..?! Do you happen to mean the neighbouring Arab states, that neglected the UN decisions in 1948 about the right of Israel to exist? The same states that now 'demand' that UN decisions are implemented... The same states that 'help' their 'Palestinian brethren' with an endless supply of arms?

If you mean all this, Wyn, we have a very different view on the real situation.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
15/11/2011 22:11

DC,



We have a very different view on the real situation.



Neighbouring Arab states ? Israel is an arab state. It was not ours to give away!



wyn

andy-f


Joined: 03/05/2009
Posts: 1256

Message Posted:
15/11/2011 22:30

wyn



he didn not mention " sampson option " as i recall





andy

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
17/11/2011 17:30

Talking about the explosion at an Iranian ballistic missile site Hassan Firouzabadi the chief staff for Irans missile programme said "This recent incident and blast has no link to Israel or America but was the outcome of research .....(which) will deliver a strong smack to the mouth of Israel and its occupying regime"



He went on to say "......Israelis should prepare for for explosions throughout Israel"



At the same time the US military confirmed that it has taken delivery of a 30,000lb bunker busting bomb called Massive Ordnance penetrator developed by Boeing. It has been designed to penetrate 200 feet underground before exploding.



My source is the world news in the Times newspaper



On a following article



The US is concerned about Chinas growing military presence in the Pacific. Obama is in Australia to seal a deal to permanently base 2,500 marines in the northern territory of Australia.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
17/11/2011 20:39

ilovecyprus,



Sky television is saying tonight, that civil war in Syria, is almost guaranteed.



This will have effects worldwide. Relationships with Turkey and Iran are "strained".



Given the title of this thread, it seems like a good start to me.



wyn

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
18/11/2011 19:40

The "Samson option" or the holocaust,certainly worrying times,



Paul.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
18/11/2011 19:52

Does anyone actually know,how many nuclear weapons they (Israel) actually have.I read that it could be as many as four hundred,with Cyprus within the radar,



Paul.

Tatlisu4me


Joined: 26/01/2008
Posts: 436

Message Posted:
18/11/2011 20:34

Dodger see message 33

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
18/11/2011 20:47

Msg113,



Enough!







wyn









Believed to be 430, though unconfirmed!

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
18/11/2011 21:00

Cheers Tats,



No need to be abrupt Wyn,



Paul.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
18/11/2011 21:19

Paul,msg115



It was said as a statement of fact.! not to be brusque.



John

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
18/11/2011 21:29

Apology accepted,lol,



Paul.

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
18/11/2011 22:12

SEEMS TO RATHER ALOT OF WARHEADS FOR SUCH A SMALL NATION. tHEY MUST HAVE SOME LOUSY BOMB AIMERS IF THEY NEED THAT MANY.tHEY HAVE NOT GOT THE MEANS TO CARRY THAT MANY OR LAUNCH THAT MANY.NOW IF YOU SAID 50 OR SO I COULD GO ALONG WITH THAT.I KNOW THE YANKS KEEP THEM GOING IN CONVENTIONAL STUFF BUT I WOULD EXPECT THEM TO LIMIT THE NEUCLEAR STUFF. CAN YOU IMAGINE WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF THEY EVER LOST A CONFLICT TO SOME ARAB NATION?DOES NOT BEAR THINKING ABOUT.

I ONLY HOPE YOU ARE WRONG WITH YOUR FIGURES WYN...

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
18/11/2011 22:24

Coachie,



I recall they had about 250 when Vananu "blew the whistle " and that would be over 20 years ago.



I recall a picture he took and it was in The Sunday Times, so on that basis it sounds reasonable. I do not



know the methods of delivery they would propose, in the event.



A terrifying stastic,



wyn