Will British military pull out of Cyprus

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
14/11/2011 12:15

Morning all,



Just wondered what peoples thoughts where on troop numbers in Cyprus.I have just been reading that it is the intention of the British government,to withdraw all troops from Germany.It currently costs the British tax payer 330 million euros per year to have troops stationed in Cyprus,thats a lot of cash,in these current hard times.With all the goings on in and around Cyprus at the moment,i personally think that it could be a mistake.But with an 8% saving to be made,the chances are that they will withdraw.Whats your thoughts please,



Paul.

yrret


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 761

Message Posted:
14/11/2011 12:27

British bases in Germany are rented from the gov there, Akrotir and Dhekelia are parts of the UK, not likely to be given up.



BTW, they are surrounded by *borders*

Cazleo


Joined: 06/04/2011
Posts: 232

Message Posted:
14/11/2011 12:29

Cyprus provides the "listening posts" for the Middle East, I very much doubt they wil be withdrawing any British army!

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
14/11/2011 12:34

Re-mess 2/3,



Lets wait and see what the "Ashcroft report" comes up with,



Paul.

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
14/11/2011 12:42

Paul, considering the once Great British Royal Navy now barely exists, I guess a strong reduction in overseas military garrison costs is next...

Clarissa2


Joined: 12/06/2009
Posts: 1476

Message Posted:
14/11/2011 12:53

Re : Msg 5,

Absolutely.

As far as I know, Acrotiri is already being paid by the US, as MoD run out of money a couple years ago and was planning to close the base.

So the bases will remain 'sovereign' de jure, but de facto will be paid (are being paid) and controlled by the US.

walkerscott


Joined: 13/08/2009
Posts: 901

Message Posted:
14/11/2011 13:05

Most of Dhekelia is at risk. Akritiri and the listening posts is another matter.

Withdrawal from Germany has been on the cards the last 15 years. With the fall of Sterling against the Euro during the last two years the costs have increased by 30%. Troops would have been withdrawn already but the Government does not have anywhere to relocate them to. They need real mini towns with infrastructure to support at least 3 huge Garrisons and that is the difficulty, and the enormous costs which have to come from somewhere.

The future lies in small military come police units specialising in "internal affairs" for that is where the most of the problems will come from. Advanced Technological Weapon Systems will take care of the rest!

Everything is now open to change more than ever before.

Geejay


Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 475

Message Posted:
14/11/2011 13:21

The British Sovereign Bases serve a strategic and intelligence need for national, EU and more importantly, NATO requirement. There is no way they can be abandoned or their efficacy reduced. The UK has too many treaty commitments to give up these bases.

Also it's in its own interests to remain knowledgeable with events in this most politically and militarily unreliable region. Strategic awareness has to be a prime consideration in defence.

Clarissa2


Joined: 12/06/2009
Posts: 1476

Message Posted:
14/11/2011 13:27

Re: Msg 8,

Re: efficacy



Yes, too many treaty commitments and no money to meet them.

dublinderm


Joined: 26/09/2009
Posts: 538

Message Posted:
14/11/2011 13:36

Hi,



I may be mistaken but didn't the UK Government offer to withdraw from Dhekelia in the event of a 'settlement' to the Cyprob?



If they completely pulled out of Cyprus where would they send units to 'step down' (ie let off steam) after deployments to Afghanistan etc.



DD

deputydawg


Joined: 30/03/2010
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
14/11/2011 13:44

Changing times. In the 1960/70s the British Army of the Rhine was 55,000 strong and the German Panzer (tanks) were only allowed a British Gun. Fistfuls of DM for £1 too !

Erkin


Joined: 15/06/2011
Posts: 339

Message Posted:
14/11/2011 13:50

msg 10



Yes under the Annan Plan Dhekelia was to be handed over to the Greek admin to reduce their claims on Tc land exchange, but since the failure of the annan plan, it is no longer on the cards, and since we will never have an agreement the chances of Dhekelia being handed over in the future is min.

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
14/11/2011 14:45

I am sure in more recent times the Uk has offered so much of the land back, but hasn't said anything about leaving. I remember it was when Gordon Brown was PM, maybe things have changed now?

ang1706


Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 570

Message Posted:
14/11/2011 14:54

Cyprus does not offer the STRATEGIC POSITION it once did. Apart from technology making the systems on the ground out of date, there is no need anymore. Cyprus was/is a Sovereign Base Area, but what does that mean when the LAST GOVERNMENT was willing to sell off a lot of land.



I can see the British Forces closing down one of the 2 SBA's within a few years. After all by 2015 95% of all troops will be out of Germany and based mostly in Scotland !!(Leuchars and Kinloss) This before next wave of defence cuts!!



So what is the point of remaining here, we no longer have anymore than a Training Team in Gibraltar, Belize, Brunei so why keep an expensive luxury such as Cyprus going!

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
14/11/2011 15:08

A 330million euro luxury Ang,



Paul.

Erkin


Joined: 15/06/2011
Posts: 339

Message Posted:
14/11/2011 15:22

Msg 14, Cyprus is not just used by the British but a lot of UN - Nato flights as a stopever for troops resting time, Over the weekend i was in Limassol and in spave of 2 hours 16 flights from various countries landed. Most of the flights were transfer of Canadian troops returning back from Afganistan.

They rest for 1 week here for returning back home, aslo over the next months, we will see a lot of US Airforce using the British base with the withdraw from Iraq.



Unlike Gibralter Cyprus is more important to the USA and to Nato then any other, If you recall months back The Turkish Goverment did not allow the US and Nato to use Incirlik The US base their for the withdraw of troops from Iraq or sending troops to Afganistan, so the only option is the British base.

dvdjohn


Joined: 27/10/2011
Posts: 128

Message Posted:
14/11/2011 16:34

What about the golf ball on Trudos, these are manned by the RAF, it is air traffic control center, plus a very powerful radar center.

ang1706


Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 570

Message Posted:
14/11/2011 17:19

Wont be needed after 2014 though as all tropops out of Afghan by then.

The US has a huge base in Iraq called Anaconda and its huge, has 5 runways and thats where the strategic listening gets done from nowadays. I know I have seen it!!

Deniz1


Joined: 28/07/2009
Posts: 3829

Message Posted:
14/11/2011 17:21

They could send a couple to live with me! B&B quite cheap at my house.

Geejay


Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 475

Message Posted:
14/11/2011 18:06

Of course the UK has a reduced need for some of the large area of the sovereign bases. So what ? We do not need to station large troop numbers in Cyprus or anywhere else any more. 'Boots on the ground' are an outdated strategy. Quick reaction forces, air support, and technological improvements have seen to that.

However, Intelligence,Air and Naval bases are crucial in keeping to our commitments within UN and NATO. Our efforts in the Libya 'no fly zone' prove that.

Defence of the UK cannot best be served by withdrawing everything back to mainland Britain and closing one's eyes to external events. The East Mediterranean and the adjoining area is an unstable hotspot and requires close monitoring. This is currently provided from the SBA's in Cyprus in conjunction with other integrated venues. None of these operate in isolation but are each a necessary part of the whole Western/NATO intelligence gathering system.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
14/11/2011 19:25

If the Brits pulled out would they need to consider who moves in after them (assuming the yanks dont take it over) . Could the Russians move in? Russia then has a presence at the edge of its potential Euro/asia zone. I believe Christofias (if he is still in power) has called for a demilitarised island, but I am sure he would be only to happy to welcome back his old comrades. Cyprus is not a member of NATO.

If the GC's do indeed trade military hardware then it might make it easier to get hold of a few Kalashnikovs.



I dont really see the above happening and I think I am talking b.......s but I thought I would throw it in to the mix as we are only debating.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
14/11/2011 19:54

As i understand it the Ashcroft report will be available from next month,



Paul.

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
14/11/2011 21:16

british bases in cyprus are more of a convalesent , holiday , wind down , for our troops these days .

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
14/11/2011 21:24

No.



Cyprus is 100 plus miles from the most volatile area in the world.



It is strategically vital. The bases are fully equipped staging posts.



The runway length at Gectikale Airport, is an interesting prospect for the Americans.



Pull out of Germany sure! Save the readies and we have no reason to be there in any event., but Cyprus



never.



wyn

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
14/11/2011 21:29

well wyn that depends , as long as we hold the bases in the roc , we owe the greeks something , not cyprus , the greeks .

dvdjohn


Joined: 27/10/2011
Posts: 128

Message Posted:
14/11/2011 21:54

Wyn>> Nothing can land at Gectikale, to many power pylons in the way.

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
14/11/2011 22:42

The strategic position of cyprus is proven and evident for thousands of yeras. Its island isolation offers security combined with a unique command post over the entire eastern mediteranean and Middle East.

Neither the British, USA or Nato will give up this treasure without cause. Other strategic sites in Turkey, Iraq, or Afghanistan are simply not as well protected or as defendable as the sovereign sites on Cyprus.

The Cyprus problem maintains a presence in the limelight because a stable Cyprus allows these powers to continue with their asspirations of strength in the region. The Cyprus issue remains, but is not a critical issue as yet, because in truth, peace and stability has prevailed since 1974.

Of course a final solution that will provide even more security is desirable to the powers and of course would be very politically correct.



Rest assured if the sovereign territory was under threat and sovereign ally activities were threatened. Then a deal more action would come.

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
14/11/2011 22:57

why did we allow the greeks to murder the turks then ? was this some kind of propoganda ? or a white wash ? why did we stand back and watch this unfold ?

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
14/11/2011 23:45

The middle East including the eastern Mediteranean has seen profound changes over the past 50 years. Indeed the control of cyprus has seen numerous regime changes since the hellenistic period.

Whilst the British had control in the post War period they were rather neglectfull of island zenophobia and cast a blind eye to ethnic unrest. This was allowed to get out of hand and without doubt the British could have taken a more assertive and diplomatic stance in maintaining ethnic harmony and peace.

perhaps the British were too involved in their own asspirations in Suez, Egypt and Israel.

Jonholmes


Joined: 08/11/2011
Posts: 184

Message Posted:
15/11/2011 00:49

Rowlo , what were the death figures from 1960 to 1974 , regarding T/C vG/c , or are there no official figures? Having only worked a summer in Paphos I got the impression alot more G/C died in period, but I guess I would have heard that , any where to find the actual figures.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
15/11/2011 14:49

looks like my message on 21 was not so stupid after all. China has come out against assad in Syria, however Russia is still defending him. It is believed that Russia wants a naval base in Syria at Latakia. With Cyprus just across from Syria, Cyprus might provide Russia with that base. Cypriot people might object but Russian money and their religious ties might make the deal possible.



So the UK would have to take this scenario in to consideration before deciding on its military status in Cyprus.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
15/11/2011 15:20

Jon re-mess 30 ,



Not sure about the figures,atrocities where commited by both sides.Look up Maratha,Santalaris and Aloda.126 innocent civilians murdered by EOKAB.



Paul.

Aljanyoung


Joined: 27/06/2007
Posts: 78

Message Posted:
15/11/2011 17:44

It has been stated on the Scottish news that RAF Kinross which was closed as an air base will be turned into barracks for troops being brought back from Germany and Cyprus to effect massive savings. The inference is that the troop numbers in Cyprus will be reduced.

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
15/11/2011 19:12

If the balloon goes up in Syria/Iran we will definately need Cyprus. When the Cuba crisis was brewing and getting close to popping,my squadron was detached to Cyprus because it was the shortest route to the USSR. It has proved to be invaluable over the years and I think until Afghanistan and the current mid east problems are sorted I think they will hang on to the base there...

cyprusairsoft



Joined: 22/06/2009
Posts: 2066

Message Posted:
17/11/2011 13:33

for once i agree with you coachie and iran is warming up nicely at the moment

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
17/11/2011 17:12

Apparently Russia is offering the Cypriots 3.5 billion in bail out money. What do they want in return?

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
17/11/2011 21:22

A leader of Syria's outlawed Muslim Brotherhood said on Thursday the Syrian people would accept military intervention by Turkey, rather than Western countries, to protect them from President Bashar al-Assad's security forces.

breezyboy


Joined: 14/05/2007
Posts: 1179

Message Posted:
22/11/2011 14:12

Fantastic business opportunity here.



Akrotiri is a prime piece of seafront real estate with its own airport.



We create UK holidays Ltd.



We stop wasting the lives of our lads in Afghanistan and start a new regiment !st Bat. The Redcoats.



All the big transports no longer needed on the Kandahar run become RAF Airlines and transport the knotted hanky brigade direct from their nearest home RAF base..



500 out of work builders produce an enormous holiday camp costs a bit more than having them on benefits.



The Naafi is the only place to buy everything and they cannot cross the border to spend money with the bubbles.



Any more ideas welcome.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
24/11/2011 16:30

Big meeting taking place today about the UK bases around the world, this includes the two Cyprus bases.



Supposedly the tone is about boosting investment, improving conditions and bolstering the defences of all our outposts.



"Reversing years of neglect and the slow decline of the 14 small islands (which includes Cyprus) under Labour, the coalition has proposed massive investments in their infrastructure, governance, education, economies and political culture. In return, it is demanding better standards of governance, tighter financial regulation, a crackdown on drug crime and better control of their borders.



.......is aimed at integrating the pinpricks of British sovereignty territory with the mainland. The government wants to use the territories more actively to bolster Britains defences, improve its global environmental record and offer civil servants a chance to widen their experience by working overseas"

Clarissa2


Joined: 12/06/2009
Posts: 1476

Message Posted:
24/11/2011 17:59

Re : Msg 39,



I thought that it was a very rapid decline under Labour!

And not only of the 14 small islands!

Lemtich



Joined: 15/02/2007
Posts: 1487

Message Posted:
24/11/2011 21:55

Anyone seen this briliant video of a British airbase on a small island ready to defend it against a potential aggressor?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QI-U3-9UO0w&feature=feedrec_grec_index

Cocklebay


Joined: 26/02/2011
Posts: 353

Message Posted:
25/11/2011 19:17

Into todays Cyber world, "listening posts" are positively antique!!!!