UK Lawyers- Any suggestions about "Natural Justice"?

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
02/12/2011 17:54

I have an authoritative booklet on "Natural Justice in Canada" but I am looking for some precedents or authoritative work about this subject and especially about the right of the accused to have access to all evidence against him before the trial unless of course it is against public policy.



Any links will be most welcome.



ismet

dalartokat


Joined: 14/04/2008
Posts: 734

Message Posted:
02/12/2011 19:12

uir.unisa.ac.za/bitstream/handle/10500/​1840/10chapter10.pdf



Ismet, is this what you are looking for. Sylvie

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
02/12/2011 19:16

Elko2,



If you are looking for natrual justice, then you are most certainly living in the wrong place.



The home of Natrual Justice, is the UK, but you need to hurry! Times they are a changin!



wyn

Hack_the_mac


Joined: 30/11/2011
Posts: 27

Message Posted:
02/12/2011 19:22

nick freeman is your man .

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
02/12/2011 21:17

Thanks Sylvie, I have already downloaded the document. There are parts in it that I can use. Do you know the name of the book, date of publication etc. ?



I am actually looking for an expansion of the third rule of Natural Justice. As far as I know, the first rule is for the accused to know what he is accused with, the second ruıle about the right to be heard and the third rule about having access to all evidence provided they are not against Public Interest. i.e. I am looking for authority that states all evidence must be given to the accused before the trial.



As far as UK is concerned, in traffic cases the law states that all evidence must be served on the accused at least seven days before the trial. If it was not for the specific law, is this essential beased on Natural Justice?

ismet

Giles


Joined: 16/08/2011
Posts: 256

Message Posted:
02/12/2011 21:32

Traffic cases are covered by a Notice of Intended Prosecution (NIP). I would look up the Police and Criminal Evidence Act (PACE) for rules of advanced disclosure.

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
02/12/2011 22:10

Giles,

ROAD TRAFFIC OFFENDERS ACT 1988

Section 20 (8):

Nothing in subsection (1) or (6) above makes a document admissible as evidence in proceedings for an offence unless a copy of it has, not less than seven days before the hearing or trial, been served on the person charged with the offence;...



So in UK they put it in black and white. In TRNC, before the prosecution you have restricted access to the picture i.e. only Nicosia, very restricted times and a small fee. After prosecution no access at all. This is a fatal mistake and I intend to make the most of it

ismet

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
02/12/2011 22:24

See Article 6 (Right to a fair trial) European Convention on Human Rights, 'The prosecutions duty of disclosure.'

Art 6(3)(d)

See Edwards v UK 1993 15 E.H.R.R 417

Jaspers v Belgium App.No.8403/78.27 D.R.6

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
02/12/2011 22:27

Hector,



I'm impressed!

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
02/12/2011 22:35

Thanks Hector but Art. 6(3)(d) the exact wording is:

"to examine or have examined witnesses against him and to obtain the attendance and examination of witnesses on his behalf under the same conditions as witnesses against him;"



I cannot find anything in the European Convention on Human Rights, about 'The prosecutions duty of disclosure". The nearest thing to it is the reference to a fair trial in art. 6(1).



ismet

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
03/12/2011 01:17

'St Natural Juice' is a concentrate mixed with warped laws and dodgy watered down black-gowned idiots!



Richard

HairyPeggy01


Joined: 01/09/2010
Posts: 24

Message Posted:
03/12/2011 06:43

When my son had a small brush with the law many years ago, our solicitor gave the magistrates an ear bashing over thé fact that, at the time, the police were not obliged to furnish all evidence in juvenile cases. Maybe it has changed now.

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
03/12/2011 07:54

I think the ECHR judgement that Hector is refferring to above (msg. 8) is about full disclosure i.e. the prosecution is obliged to disclose all evidence for and against the accused and not hide the ones in the accused favour.



What I am looking for is the obligation for the prosecution to submit all evidence to the accused before the trial and in essence well in advance to give him the time to research if necessary.



"Natural Justice in Canada" http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26171843/10_Principles_of_Natural_Justice.pdf

page 101 states: "The normal rule that a person is entitled to know all of the evidence against him before being heard may be modified for reason of public policy".



Is there anything similar from UK?



ismet

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
03/12/2011 08:00

Wyn,

I heard that "Natural Justice" has decided to pack up and move from UK to Cyprus but has not arrived yet. Its people like you and me that has to do their bit to hasten the arrival.

ismet

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 21:25

See

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2011/1709/part/21/made

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 21:36

In England & Wales the issue of disclosure of evidence is under the Criminal Procedure and Investigations Act 1996



http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1996/25/contents

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 22:51

Hector, you are great. Ta very much

ismet

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
10/12/2011 01:38

Ismet

What has Canada got to offer?

RUDE

http://youtu.be/twI5XVCgo6c



Richard

pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
10/12/2011 08:50

Natural Justice must have got lost in the post Ismet, bit like some of mine which arrived eventually afte going via Thailand.



I googled Natural Justice, lots of info.