Hospital treatment in the UK

dippersgirl



Joined: 04/05/2010
Posts: 795

Message Posted:
06/12/2011 14:48

I just read in another thread that it is difficult to get treatment in the UK. I don't understand this. Is this just in London?

When we are not in North Cyprus, we live in the West Country and are still registered with a GP. We have been quite healthy and have not visited him much, when we were in England. Why would he know where we spend our time?

If I had a problem and would go back to England to have treatment, why would anybody ask me for my passport etc.?? Or is this problem because people are not registered with a GP in England??

Visitor


Joined: 19/08/2010
Posts: 492

Message Posted:
06/12/2011 15:23

I think much depends on your residence status. Here is some info



http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/www.dh.gov.uk/en/Healthcare/Entitlementsandcharges/OverseasVisitors/Browsable/DH_074384.



I guess if your registered with a GP its fine. The question is if you are entitled to be. That depends on a number of factors but mainly on how much time you spend in the UK. Its a legal requirement to inform the authorities if you live permanently abroad. On a different note but related there was a case of a couple who were living in Sri lanka most of the time but claiming UK benefits - here there are strict rules abt residence. He ended up being prosecuted and jailed for fraud.

Visitor


Joined: 19/08/2010
Posts: 492

Message Posted:
06/12/2011 15:24

sorry here is the link



http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/www.dh.gov.uk/en/Healthcare/Entitlementsandcharges/OverseasVisitors/Browsable/DH_074384

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
06/12/2011 15:26

I believe you have to be in uk

for 6 months in each year

to qualify

Woodspeckie


Joined: 25/01/2009
Posts: 2263

Message Posted:
06/12/2011 15:43

If you leave the UK to live abroad you should inform your GP's surgery to remove you from their list. You cannot be on a GP's list if you move out of the area, my Son has moved from one area to another only 5 miles apart but has had to change surgery.

magicart


Joined: 05/10/2008
Posts: 985

Message Posted:
06/12/2011 17:04

If you live outside the Uk for 6 months in any one year you will not be entitled to treatments on the NHS.

However if you are drawing a state pension and you have previously lived in the UK for more than 10 years you will be eligible for some kinds of treatment to be decided by your GP.

I know this for a fact because I am in the Uk at the moment waiting to have an operation on Friday which I have had to pay for privately because the NHS refused to fund as I have lived in Northern Cyprus for the last 4 years.



Having payed NI for the last 45 years and still paying tax on my private pension I cannot express my anger at this very unfair policy"......it's a disgrace.



Art.

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
06/12/2011 17:08

Did you declare this info

or did they check and find out?

davpat


Joined: 23/08/2011
Posts: 225

Message Posted:
06/12/2011 17:11

Art,didnt you do your "homework" before deciding to relocate to another country with the resulting consequencies?







David

dalartokat


Joined: 14/04/2008
Posts: 734

Message Posted:
06/12/2011 17:14

Message 6....its nothing to do with your NI and Tax contributions, its based on residency.

Visitor


Joined: 19/08/2010
Posts: 492

Message Posted:
06/12/2011 17:17

its possible for TCYs not sure abt expats to get a ROC European Health card that would entitle you to some coverage in the UK.



The only other option is to say that you are returning to the UK permanently.

Pippie


Joined: 02/12/2009
Posts: 1288

Message Posted:
06/12/2011 17:26

GP surgeries sometimes conveniently overlook if you've not been in to see them for some time just so that they can keep you on their books and claim funding for you. If they've finally struck you off then there's not many options other than to say you're returning to the UK and need to re-register.



Failing that someone I know went in to a walk in centre complaining of chest pains and got himself back on the books and being treated under the NHS for free in no time!!!



There's always a way - although it goes against many of my principles, sometimes it seems you can be too honest!

magicart


Joined: 05/10/2008
Posts: 985

Message Posted:
06/12/2011 17:27

Msg7.



I told them the truth and that was a big mistake but I know they have the facility to check your passports and dates of UK entry



Msg8,



I did do some research in 2006 but the rules were changed.



Msg 9



You are probably correct but who pays for the national health service.?



I think I have paid my share over the 40 plus years.

magicart


Joined: 05/10/2008
Posts: 985

Message Posted:
06/12/2011 17:32

Msg 10



You are spot on ...... If you tell them you are moving back you will then qualify for treatment-even if it may be a lie.



It's ludicrous

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
06/12/2011 17:34

How long do people from other countries

have to be in the UK to get free care?

dalartokat


Joined: 14/04/2008
Posts: 734

Message Posted:
06/12/2011 18:00

Philbailey you live in the UK you can find the information the same as me or anyone else. Maybe spend a bit more looking for the information than spending time on here winding people up.



Message 12, again, nothing to do with the "fair share" you have paid in, its based on residency. No one is turned away for emergency treatment, after diagnosis, the decision is made whether you pay or not. You cannot go to the NHS from living abroad and then walk in with an existing condition and expect to be treated for it. ~You should have made your own provision in NC and got the treatment out there. It was your choice to leave the UK.

millzer


Joined: 12/04/2007
Posts: 978

Message Posted:
06/12/2011 18:06

I believe they are also working on systems with the new biometric passports that will flag up via peoples NI numbers how long people have been out of the country for. A bit like clocking in and out. Big brother is watching you.

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
06/12/2011 18:31

Sorry to hear that Art. Hope all goes well and your back here soon.

teatime


Joined: 20/10/2008
Posts: 852

Message Posted:
06/12/2011 18:39

Wishing you well with your op Art.

I completely agree with your sentiments, totally unfair that we still have to pay tax in the UK and get absolutely nothing for it.

magicart


Joined: 05/10/2008
Posts: 985

Message Posted:
06/12/2011 19:32

Msg 15



You make a valid point but why should I continue with many others to pay UK income tax?



You are wrongly assuming that I didn't make provision for health cover in the TRCN-fact of the matter is that I did and the treatment I received which included surgery has led to the position I'm in now so I have very little confidence in the quality of the treatment.











Msg 17 and 18,



Thank you so much for your support and best wishes to you both.



Art.

Visitor


Joined: 19/08/2010
Posts: 492

Message Posted:
06/12/2011 20:15

Its all based on residency not what you have paid in the past. If you move to another EU state you can apply for

the UK to pay from your contributions for two years in your new state and pensioners have additional special provisions.



I live in France and we have many UK pensioners here who contribute near nothing to the French health state.

Hence creating resentment amongst the French as in Spain. Some gain and others loose out!

trooper


Joined: 04/07/2009
Posts: 211

Message Posted:
06/12/2011 20:26

Art; You're the wrong colour sunshine.....



I'm put in mind of the old joke about why the UK government is going to tax Aspirin at 40 per cent - the answer being it's because Aspirin is White and it works!



The whole residence rule about nhs entitlement is nonsense and must be changed, especially when the UK is absolutely awash with dodgy immigrants/asylum seekers/failed asylum seekers etc etc who have paid b ugger all into the system. It may be the law but it is absolutely wrong. So tell a few porkies and make sure you qualify one way or the other - work the system the buggers who do not belong in the UK certainly do.

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
06/12/2011 20:30

Msg 21, that was what I tried to say earlier

but got accused of winding people up







play the system

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
06/12/2011 20:33

Millzer,



you are right ,all information is gradually being computerized so that your entry and exit into the country is registered. Some GP's have allowed patients to remain on their books but this will come to an end with the new GP funding reforms. In some of the bigger London Hospitals Managers have now been employed to monitor this.



The ruling is that you must have been in residence in Britain for 6 months prior to seeking treatment. Emergency treatment remains free for all, but follow ups after the initial treatment are charged.





http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/4249316/British-woman-who-moved-to-Turkey-forced-to-pay-for-NHS-treatment.html



Will give you more details.

dalartokat


Joined: 14/04/2008
Posts: 734

Message Posted:
06/12/2011 21:14

Philbailey, you do it everytime, you know the answers to the questions, because they have been asked many times and the replies are the same. Why don't you find out the answers for yourself by looking up the information, it is easy. But you choose to go on a North Cyprus forum to ask a question about something in the UK that you know gets people going just by writing a couple of lines and then when someone writes back you say "thats what I was trying to say earlier" well why didn't you say it then? Thats why your a wind up merchant!!!. I thought people from Bromley had more intelligence, they used to when I lived there many many years ago. Obviously not now.

Woodspeckie


Joined: 25/01/2009
Posts: 2263

Message Posted:
06/12/2011 21:24

Bradus. There must be information on computer now, my Son moved to new area but stayed registered with his GP in the old area, one of his children went to A & E and gave the new address, two weeks later my Son got a letter from the GP's saying as they now lived out of the area they had four weeks to change their GP as they were being taken off the register.

dalartokat


Joined: 14/04/2008
Posts: 734

Message Posted:
06/12/2011 22:01

Message 19, unfortunately in life and death we have to pay taxes. Just because one continues to pay taxes does not automatically give anyone the right to assume they must get something for nothing just because they have contributed in the past.



I am sorry to hear that your operation went wrong in NC but that is a chance one takes when going to a country that is not of the same standard and thats why people are advised to make good provision for their healthcare so it gives them a choice. But, in your case, why did you not choose Ankara to have your operation corrected as opposed to the UK, or did you think you were getting it for free.



I live over here full time and I'm getting cheesed off with people from all walks also, the standard of the NHS is buckling under and I don't want the NHS to go that way but I also don't want people coming over who have chosen to live elsewhere and think they can walk in out as they see fit, especially when any other time to them the UK is the pits

JohhnyLee


Joined: 25/04/2009
Posts: 2495

Message Posted:
07/12/2011 12:29

Magicart firstly Jan and I wish you well.



No way should you have to pay for your treatments, due to the reasons you so rightly point out.



It should not matter where you choose to live after you have done your bit and decided to retire.



We are still paying many many thousands of £s each year into the UK system via my business and we still get wages slips.



We also travel back to the UK to make sure that the Tax and VAT gets paid on time.



So where will that leave us ? Are we not entitle to NHS ? Because we choose to spend time away.



Well last week I did a little bit of research into this.



Via a very very clever fairly powerful friend in the UK.



This was his reply. It is nonsense. They are doing now what Insurance companys are doing, trying to screw you at the first hurdle and hope that you dont pursue it. There fore taking the easy option. PAY.



He as assured me that if you are are a UK Citizen with a UK passport then they cannot refuse.

nurseawful



Joined: 06/02/2009
Posts: 5934

Message Posted:
07/12/2011 12:46

Dear Ms Offord,



Thank you for your email of 27 October to Andrew Lansley about access to NHS treatment for one of your patients. I have been asked to reply.



There is no provision whereby visitors to the UK can automatically be entitled to free NHS hospital treatment. Anyone who is not ordinarily resident in the UK is subject to the ‘National Health Service (Charges to Overseas Visitors) Regulations 1989’, as amended. Nationality or past or present payments of UK taxes and National Insurance contributions are not taken into consideration when establishing residence. The regulations place a responsibility on NHS trusts to have systems in place to establish whether a person is ordinarily resident, or exempt from charges, or liable to be charged.



Under these regulations, there is an exemption whereby anyone who is taking up permanent residence in the UK is entitled to free NHS care. If your patient’s intention was to live permanently in the UK, he will be exempt from hos

nurseawful



Joined: 06/02/2009
Posts: 5934

Message Posted:
07/12/2011 12:48

Under these regulations, there is an exemption whereby anyone who is taking up permanent residence in the UK is entitled to free NHS care. If your patient’s intention was to live permanently in the UK, he will be exempt from hospital charges from the date of his arrival in the country but he should expect to be asked to prove his intention and that he is legally entitled to live here. Examples of evidence could include:



· documentation to prove he is entitled to live in the UK such as a British Passport;

· documentation that proves his intention is to reside here permanently such as sale of goods/property overseas, receipts showing shipping of goods, application for benefits.



Please note that in all cases the regulations place the responsibility of deciding who is entitled to receive free hospital treatment with the hospital providing treatment.



Yours sincerely,



Edward Corbett

Customer Service Centre

Department of Health

Ozbey


Joined: 04/03/2009
Posts: 304

Message Posted:
07/12/2011 12:49

Lee,

".........then they cannot refuse."

So who do I speak to and what do I say when the doctor does refuse to treat me?

Can I pass the doctor on to your "very very clever fairly powerful friend" for confirmation?

nurseawful



Joined: 06/02/2009
Posts: 5934

Message Posted:
07/12/2011 12:51

messages 28 & 29 Are the answers I received from the UK last year when I wrote to Andrew Lansley the Minister of Health.

If anyone wants a copy of the original e-mail I can supply!



Chris



p.s. If you read it properly there is a way you can get free treatment by slightly twisting the truth.

teatime


Joined: 20/10/2008
Posts: 852

Message Posted:
07/12/2011 12:55

Msg 26. Why so arrogant and holier than thou? Talk about kicking someone when they are down.

Leave the man alone he don't need your diatribe at this time.

dalartokat


Joined: 14/04/2008
Posts: 734

Message Posted:
07/12/2011 18:43

Message 32, nothing to do with being holier than thou or arrogant or giving diatribe, if you people choose not to accept the rules over here in the UK thats your problem. Its clear enough in the e mails that Nurseawful received and its very clear on the websites available if you care to look. But I guess you choose to believe what you want to because the truth hurts because probably you've not done your homework before you left. So get off your high horse and leave me alone to post my opinions the same as you have the option to post yours.

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
07/12/2011 19:11

Msg 31, exactly

just say you have moved back for good

pretty simple .

And maybe claim some benefits?

magicart


Joined: 05/10/2008
Posts: 985

Message Posted:
07/12/2011 19:52

Johhny Lee,



Thank you so much for your kind words of support and for the useful information -its very much appreciated.



Msg 33,



Your aggressive and selfish attitude just under lines one of the reasons why we decided to leave the UK



You are quick to jump to the wrong conclusions and sadly you lack any form of compasion.



I wish you well with your sad life.

JohhnyLee


Joined: 25/04/2009
Posts: 2495

Message Posted:
07/12/2011 19:56

magicart you are so welcome you have plenty of support from people who know you and how much good work you have done.



Push hard for you entitlement.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
07/12/2011 21:44

Magicart,



You are right the only way to get free NHS treatment, if you have been living overseas for more than 6 months, is to state that you have now returned and the UK is now going to be your permanent place of residency. You do however need to be careful in proving that you are taking up residency.



I am in total agreement that it should be your past contributions that dictate your allowance and not residency. Unfortunately as a NHS employee, I am seeing some sad, often unfair cases where people have ended up with huge bills and denied all but emergency treatment.

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
07/12/2011 21:45

If you are an "EX-PATRIOT" then you, by choice, ,no longer have the free benefits of the defunct NHS get used to it

teatime


Joined: 20/10/2008
Posts: 852

Message Posted:
07/12/2011 22:16

Msg 38: We are used to it, and would have no problem with it if the government there was fair and did not continue to take tax off of us in the UK. They want their cake and eat it. Most, if not all of us know the rules, all we are saying is are they fair? When I lived in the UK I was still of the same opinion as I am now, people who paid/pay into the system should in all fairness be entitled to the benefits of the system before those that have contributed nothing.

magicart


Joined: 05/10/2008
Posts: 985

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 10:20

Msg 38



Is it fair to say that ex-pats who do not qualify for the NHS but are still paying income tax are in effect subsidising those who are entitled to treatment on NHS?



Do you honestly believe this to be a fair and reasonable system and please explain why Expats should continue to pay income tax.



Thanks



Art

dalartokat


Joined: 14/04/2008
Posts: 734

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 10:58

Magicart, Message 35 ..you could not be further from the truth. Unfortunately for you you just refuse to take in the facts as they are. Its nothing to do with compassion, you don't know me. I can only go on the information you have chosen to give on this forum. I have said nothing more or less than any other person on this thread and others, so please do not insult me and become agressive towards me because your unable to take in the reasons given. Again I reiterate to you, your Income Tax payments have nothing whatsoever to do with your NHS treatment in the UK, its based on residency.



I also told the truth before leaving the UK in 1997 to NC by surrendering my Medical card only to find in NC that most expats did not do the same and was told I should have left a UK address. Upon returning to the UK I needed treatment and only had 10 days left before being charged. Rules have always been there but not implemented for various reasons. You also told the truth now the consequences.

dalartokat


Joined: 14/04/2008
Posts: 734

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 11:03

....continued from message 41....My conscience is clear as I'm sure yours is. Also where I have said "I can only go on the information you have given" one would not expect every detail to be exposed to all and sundry, but it does leave replies to be somewhat "having to jump to conclusions" if you do not reveal all the information.

dalartokat


Joined: 14/04/2008
Posts: 734

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 11:16

Magicart, very strange also that I'm the sort of person you left the UK for, but now find you and others can put that all to one side when it comes to wanting free treatment in the UK, or in your case in NC:



"and the treatment I received which included surgery has led to the position I'm in now so I have very little confidence in the quality of the treatment."



So the agressive and selfish people over here are OK for your operation to be rectified also. Well I hope it all goes well for you.

NCMan



Joined: 19/09/2009
Posts: 670

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 11:33

I realy do not know why you are all keeping on about this,



Dalartokat obviously has a bee in his bonnet, about this & all expats that live here.!

dalartokat


Joined: 14/04/2008
Posts: 734

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 11:39

NC Man, I do not have a bee in my bonnet at all, just telling it as it is and deal in fact not fiction and I am a "her" not a "him"

NCMan



Joined: 19/09/2009
Posts: 670

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 11:40

Sorry HER Bonnet !!

magicart


Joined: 05/10/2008
Posts: 985

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 11:58

Msg 43,



The next time you need to use the free NH service please remember that people like me and thousands of other expats are subsidising your treatment so you should be far more supportive.



Residency could well be the criteria for UK qualification but this will not pay for the NH service.Funds are generated from income tax and national insurance and are not relatiive to residency so I'm unable to understand your logic.



Again you have wrongly assumed that I had free treatment in the TRNC and like many other ex-pats I have made provision for my health care but resent paying income tax without receiving any benefit.I also find it difficult to come to terms with the fact that I could qualify for free medical care by telling a pack of lies to an authority which is useing my money to care for others and interestingly I'm being encouraged to do this by members of the health service.

walkerscott


Joined: 13/08/2009
Posts: 901

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 12:01

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-204961/UK-expats-fall-victim-health-tourism.html

http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/Healthcareabroad/movingabroad/Pages/Livingabroad.aspx

http://www.ukgovabusesexpats.co.uk/Articles/Absences-3months-revised-March07.htm

walkerscott


Joined: 13/08/2009
Posts: 901

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 12:04

NATIONAL HEALTH SERVICE - IMPLEMENTING THE OVERSEAS VISITORS

HOSPITAL CHARGING REGULATIONS - GUIDANCE FOR NHS TRUST HOSPITALS IN ENGLAND



http://www.ukgovabusesexpats.co.uk/Working/NHS%20rights%20for%20pensioners%20John%20Hutton.%20Full%20Report..pdf

gotavilla


Joined: 22/04/2009
Posts: 175

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 12:25

Art, I agree with you wholeheartedly. Keep your chin up and don't listen to the 'nasty' comments some people have made. You've paid in, you should be entitled to claim.

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 13:19

darlatocat..I agree with you 100%,but there are those who seem to think that they are above the law.They go on about all these scrounging immigrants and benefit cheats and really they are no better.If they want to come here and cheat our system of laws I hope they duly get caught and are dealt with accordingly.Our government makes the rules and if you cannot abide by them be prepaired to face the consequences. I am sorry for Magicart whose op . in the TRNC was not a success, that was his choice to have it done there.No good complaining about the Standard of medical treatment you got there when you could have paid a little extra, and as it now seems, had better care in our "useless,defunct NHS" or even a private hospital over here.It always amazes me that when Brits go to reside abroad they expect the old mother country to look after them when they need help,and expect it free of charge..I will now don my flack jacket and tin hat and wait for the abuse to come back....

teatime


Joined: 20/10/2008
Posts: 852

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 14:15

Wondered when you would appear to put you two pennies woth in Coachie. If you read the posts again, no one is expecting something for nothing, the point wee're making is that we are still expected to pay tax in the UK. They are happy to still take our money but in all other aspects want to disown us, even a staunch Labour supporter like yourself must see that there is something unjust in that.

NCMan



Joined: 19/09/2009
Posts: 670

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 14:22

I think it is time to close this now before some one says something they may regret later.

Come on Mods.!!

straitasadie


Joined: 14/09/2009
Posts: 450

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 14:32

message 51.The NHS is not free and never has been.It functions due to taxes and NI payments.I have paid

umpteen thousands to the uk coffers over a period of 48 years.A lot coming from capital gains due to

running my own business for 25 years.YES i deserve 100% health care when needed.I still pay tax on

investments and private pensions.Next time you decide to make rediculous remarks please change FEET.

nurseawful



Joined: 06/02/2009
Posts: 5934

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 14:41

http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Healthcare/Entitlementsandcharges/OverseasVisitors/Browsable/DH_074379





Very interesting bit near the end of this leaflet telling you who is entitled to free NHS charges!!!!



Chris

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 14:48

Very interesting the list includes



"Failed asylum seekers receiving section 4 or section 95 UK Border Agency support;"

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 15:22

strait as sadie..I pay taxes over here as well as you and the NHS is free to me.I do not pay NI contributions which is basically what pays for NHS.If you had read and understood the legal situation concerning NHS treatment when residing abroad permanently,you would know that youare not entiled to it.Now I do not make the laws,and I might agree that it sounds unfair but that is the way things are and you just have to accept the situaion.Sorry you are being harshly done to on your taxes on your finances.I have said it before on this forum that I wish you did not pay any taxes on your pensions then there would be no arguing about you having to pay for your NHS treatment.Then again there are those of you "who have paid all their lives" who would not even be happy about that.I have paid all my life and one of the reasons I dont live abroad is because of the laws on receiving treatment back home if it was required.The choice was yours now all you have to do is accept the facts as laid down..

NCMan



Joined: 19/09/2009
Posts: 670

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 17:06

So cock sure coachie probably just as well you are over there !!!

steve.sewell


Joined: 07/11/2011
Posts: 277

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 17:14

If your male, just put a silk dress on and wrap a scarf around your head and your be okay, perhaps change your name by deed poll to patel.

dearie


Joined: 08/03/2011
Posts: 142

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 17:16

Magicart - our country is a farce - I quite agree with you worked and paid into the system yet don't qualify - yet those that have come from outside and have been given sanctity etc by our very generous nation DO. There aren't enough swear words to explain my anger - DİSGUSTİNG - IMMORAL

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 17:28

NC.man...I am glad I am over here,weather is not as good as yours but you cannot have everything which is what some of you want.....

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 17:35

Steve Sewell...Patel is outdated now.It has to something like..Dogravonavichkova from Ukraine or Rumania or the likes thereof....

oliveoil


Joined: 16/03/2008
Posts: 58

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 17:52

Do you not all think that the NHS covered you during all of your working/non working life while living in England for any emergency or little sniffle you had ?, look at it like an insurance policy while you were paying your premiums eg; national insurance, you were covered, now youre not cos youre not paying the premium, the arguement that you paid for 40 years dont wash, it was not the NHS that decided not to live in England it was you, and if you keep money invested or something else is earning you money there then yes you pay the tax on it as you would anywere, in this case I agree with coachie some of you want your cake and to eat it

jmho

magicart


Joined: 05/10/2008
Posts: 985

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 17:52

This has nothing to do with wanting everything-it's to do with fairness.



I think most ex-pats make provisions for health care (as I did )but resent paying income tax in order to subsidise those in the UK who are able to abuse the system.



Next time you visit your doctor perhaps you will thank all the expats who still pay UK taxes for helping to fund your visit.



Bet you won't!

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 18:06

Art's only crime in all this is he was too bloody honest.



Day in day out i see people who live here and have done for years going back to use the NHS. Both Brits and Cypriots.

magicart


Joined: 05/10/2008
Posts: 985

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 18:07

Oliveoil,



So when you retire and you draw your state pension you should not be entiltled to free national health because you will no longer pay national insurance contributions?



I think your argument is a little flawed.

magicart


Joined: 05/10/2008
Posts: 985

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 18:18

Blade,



Spot on and that's what annoys me the most.



I also find it difficult to understand why some Brits resent expats and are quick to criticise without knowing the reasons why we have decided to live abroad.



Regardless of what they say I still think expats should be exempt from income tax unless we can still receive NH treatment.

dalartokat


Joined: 14/04/2008
Posts: 734

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 19:02

Magicart, you do not pay your taxes for me to use the NHS. Do you think you are the only one that pays taxes. How patronising you have become since the start of this thread. Unfortunately I'm not a mind reader to either understand why you are in the UK having your op rectified or what is wrong with you or the reason you decided to live abroad. So it leaves people no choice but to make assumptions. It was nothing about resentment it was about giving the reason you could not get free treatment in the UK, but you have made it a slanging match through your attitude and the failure of you to comprehend the reasons why you cannot have free treatment on the NHS whilst paying your taxes. Your problem.



Maybe when you go back to NC you should have a go at the expats who come over here using the NHS by giving false addresses or their relatives addresses or not telling their Doctors they have left the UK in order to use the NHS. Don't take your anger out on me.

magicart


Joined: 05/10/2008
Posts: 985

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 19:20

MSG 68



Yes you do have a choice-do not make make assumptions and try and see others point of view without being aggressive.



The last paragraph in your thread speaks volumes about who you are and your bitter and twisted attitude.



No more from me-just have a good life and please be a little more tolerant.

dearie


Joined: 08/03/2011
Posts: 142

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 19:32

When ministers want their cake and eat it - as they have done by cheating on their expenses forms - is that OK then. Their behaviour is purely greed - and trying to defraud the system - do you have strong opinions about that dalartokat

dalartokat


Joined: 14/04/2008
Posts: 734

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 19:39

Well your the "educator" dearie, you work it out.

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 19:42

Msg 71 should that be you are or you're ?

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 19:45

dearie..but they got caught out eventually and paid the price.



Magicart..I suggest that you write to the national press or some MP that you may know to bring this matter up in the House of Commons and explain that you find this totally unjust and unfair and ask them,ney ,tell them you are are going to stop paying your taxes until it is changed.Could be very interesting to asee what reply you get.

joanie1


Joined: 25/07/2008
Posts: 164

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 20:12

I think everyone needs to cool down. We all choose to come and live here for various reasons. BUT and this is a big point - we have worked for 40 or more years in the UK paying taxes at normal or higher rates. Many of us(including the Forces) had private healthcare no burden on the NHS - the forces put their life on the line (yes literally) to give some very sad people on this forum the right to slag off those who do not agree with their opinions. I don't agree with Health Tourism in general but we are all paying tax in England so in fairness we should be allowed stop paying and have the choice how to spend our own money OR we should have the right to treatment when we need it in England. There are Health Tourists right now in England who have never paid a penny into the system. OK rules are rules but these are recent rules. Actually all you need is to go to UK register as a temporary patient and you'll be treated free (remember you are paying for it every month in tax.

magicart


Joined: 05/10/2008
Posts: 985

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 20:15

Msg73,



I'm already on the case and thanks for your suggestion.



I can see other points of view and some of the salient points are very valid-I do however feel that the British government are treating the expats unfairly in order to reduce spending and I'm sure this view is shared by many people.



Not everyone will agree and I respect their views but I think the system is grossly unfair

joanie1


Joined: 25/07/2008
Posts: 164

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 20:34

Coachie - How can you stop paying taxes on your pensions when they are taken off at source?



Joan

dippersgirl



Joined: 04/05/2010
Posts: 795

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 21:01

Ohh...dear...it's taken me ages to read all this, I couldn't get online for a couple of day and didn't expect all this!!!

I've manages to sift though all this and found the good information amongst this lot



thanks for the useful information.

At least I can make informed decisions.

dippersgirl



Joined: 04/05/2010
Posts: 795

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 21:02

I agree with NC man this thread has run its course!!!!

MsGarnet


Joined: 04/01/2009
Posts: 989

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 21:51

Facetious I know- but as TRNC 'doesn't exist' you couldn't be living there - and as some others have said, honesty clearly isn't always the best policy...

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 22:21

How many TC's living in NC have a relatives address in the UK and use that for NHS treatment?

oliveoil


Joined: 16/03/2008
Posts: 58

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 23:25

Magic art with the best will your argument is more flawed just listen to yourself your message 66



So when you retire and you draw your state pension you should not be entiltled to free national health because you will no longer pay national insurance contributions?



No problem if you still have a UK home address but if you dont you know the rules

so tough, youre argument is not just flawed its non existint

sorry to be so blunt but thats life as they say

Blade post 65 I agree but if they are tightening up now

then again sorry

but it was bound to happen

too many expats seem to think its ok to *massage* the rules

Youre INCOME TAX is not a big part of the argument



Mebee a lot of people think the same as you but a lot more do not, you and others are entitled to state opposing views but there is no need for the below from post 69



The last paragraph in your thread speaks volumes about who you are and your bitter and twisted attitude

robgreen


Joined: 06/12/2011
Posts: 9

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 23:59

My sister and Tc brother-in-law think that they were shopped by someone because of posting on 44.







No more GP back home for them.

LaptaMike


Joined: 07/10/2009
Posts: 1679

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 00:10

Only read the first post.





I think the NHS is very good, I had a complaint with my legs and got to see my GP a few hours later. She gave me a form so I went to hospital the next day with the letter from the GP and had my legs X-Rayed within seconds of arriving (Didn't even have chance to sit down on the chairs in the waiting room.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 00:11

As an employee of the NHS I read this thread with interest. Like most nursing staff, the abuse of the system is evident, in day in to day practice. At the end of the day some cases simply come down to need and it's impossible to say what is right and what is wrong when you are witnessing untold suffering and the pain and torment of the loved ones involved. How do you measure this against Government Reform and Policy? Do you take my stance and say that access to health care should be a human right or do we put this down purely to finances?



In reality what does it matter if you are retired and living abroad or retired and living at home? In both cases you have stopped contributing financially. Those living abroad perhaps save the NHS money as the only time they ask for treatment is when their medical condition is such that extensive intervention is needed rather than the usual trips for to the GP for well-being and run-of- the mill illness.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 00:28

There is most definitely abuse of the system but it tends to be in those that need tattoo removal or cosmetic surgery or other non-life saving, non-essential treatments.



In short the reforms are never based on clinical need. How can we justify being entitled to winter fuel allowances but then decisions being made about with holding treatment that impacts on our quality of life and life expectancy?

It is time to revisit the rules and by all means prevent abuse of the NHS but in a way that does not lead to untold misery for those that have contributed to the system or those in dire need.



In short. there is no right or wrong. This is not a financial debate, it boils down to, do we have the desire to stop pain and suffering or do we merely take a financial stance? Surely the right decision is to base each case on their individual circumstances?



Blanket reforms were never going to be successful, as there will always be cases that fall through the safety net.

LaptaMike


Joined: 07/10/2009
Posts: 1679

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 01:33

I think it is an understanding between ones self and the GP that is important. As long as you have an UK address they don't seem to mind (from my experience anyway)

steptoenoel


Joined: 27/04/2011
Posts: 116

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 03:21

Well guys as a fullt paid up member of nhs in uk,and as we are only swallows.My husband saw the most wonderfull doctor in kyrenia last april,he voiced his opinion.We are still waiting on nhs appointment

MsGarnet


Joined: 04/01/2009
Posts: 989

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 07:47

I'm in Uk, but when one considers some folk paid NHS contributions since - say - 17 years of age, and only retired abroad - say - in their sixties, one would think they would still be entitled to NHS care, in consideration of our MP's shown in the past year or so, to have fiddled this country out of hundreds of thousands - and most of them - have got away with it! For those same MP's to make edicts, tenets, legislation et cetera and take the moral high ground over their indigenous cousins - beggars belief...

NCMan



Joined: 19/09/2009
Posts: 670

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 08:13

Post deleted , a disgusting comment , ........ Simbas

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 13:28

JOANIE 1..it was not my idea to stop paying taxes but a fellow poster who said he was thinking about it.I am fully aware of how the tax system on our pensions work.If you read the post I also said that if you were not stopped tax would you be happy to pay for your treatment.I could go along with that.But like I have also said, much to some peoples annoyance,I do not make the rules about who qualifies and who does not qualify,the British Government do,and at this present moment in time you have no chance of it changing in the next 5 years at least.



NCman..I was going to answer your stupid statement with a rude comment but I refuse to lower myself to your gutter type comments...

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 13:46

I am not at retirement age. I still pay tax and ni into the UK system but live here.

Technically i would not be intitled under the residency rules to nhs, but as someone previously pointed out you can't be a resident of somewhere that doesn't exist.

After all most people who live here, stamped in their passport it says 'visitor; not resident..



I think the UK gov just wants it cake and to eat it. Far too many people just turn up in the UK to use the NHS, i personally think that if you have paid in upto retirment age, you should be intitled to use the system if you need to. Thats not unfair when people from abroad turn up and use the services for free just because they know how to cheat the system.

simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
Posts: 5943

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 14:22

Msg 89 , deleted for reason given

Simbas

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 14:44

I think people keep missing the point here. It is now hard to "cheat" the system. The NHS is using a range of methods to verify if the patient is entitled to treatment. When you sign an admission form it will ask you to verify your status and the checking of these details is becoming standard operational procedure.



At the moment the computer systems within the NHS are slow to tie in with other systems like border ins and outs and other Government Departments. However they are getting there slowly but surely. You risk being fined as well as being denied treatment should you lie about your status.



I personally think it should be based on past contribution payments and not residency. However I would not recommend people misinform hospitals because they carry the risk of hefty fines.



People still appear misinformed. It is not having an address in the UK but having continuous residency for 6 months prior to seeking treatment.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 14:56

An excellent article that explains the current requirements



http://www.shelteroffshore.com/index.php/health/more/living-abroad-medical-insurance-nhs-treatment-10272

Jeannie


Joined: 04/08/2009
Posts: 3283

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 16:37

With the exception of pitching up at A & E, you would need a referral by a GP to be seen by a consultant in a N.H.S. Hospital. So, providing you have not informed your GP that you are residing abroad, he/she is none the wiser and assumes you are still living at the address the GP surgery has on their records. The GP then refers you on to the local hospital and you receive the relevant treatment. I wonder how many questions would be asked at the hospital then; I assume the hospital staff would think everything was above board?



It has also been said that some GP's are happy to keep you on their register, even when they are aware you have moved abroad, because they get paid for treating you, although I understand that strictly speaking, this is breaking the law.

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 17:09

Bradus,

when we moved here years ago we informed our GP that we were leaving. They never removed us from their list, for what ever reason. We just joined a new practice when we purchased a new property in another area without question or problems.

How do they determin residency for people who say work for a uk company abroad. Can they still be denied using the nhs?

Their normal residence is the uk, they pay tax, ni and council tax into the uk system but may be out of the country more than180 days per year.

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 17:41

Agree with Dalartokat. this is a windup to get people ranting





Those of you that didnt know you had to be resident in the UK to get free NHS care must have left their brains behind.No wonder so many get ripped off in NC if thats an example of the research.

The rule wasnt specifically for pensioners,but for people who work/live abroad and dont pay tax. If you want to claim non residency to avoid taxes then the Govt should avoid giving you NHS care. The N(ational)HS is for people who live in the UK ,not for people who live elswhere.The taxes you pay while you lived in the UK are for care during that time,same as unemployment benifit is not allowed if you are non resident.



Anyway ,as most on this forum slag of the UK and NHS ,put your money where your mouth is and pay for your own care in the country of your choice,and leave the NHS for for the British. Non resident means you dont live there anymore, so what UK does with NHS or any other rules ,is nothing to do with you

LaptaMike


Joined: 07/10/2009
Posts: 1679

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 18:24

Bradus, even though I reside in Cyprus for more than 6 months of the year my GP and the radiographer at the hospital had no problem dealing with me. The radiographer even looked on the computer and came up with my details from more than 25 years ago.............



(I EVEN said I live in Cyprus)................

kaiserphil


Joined: 14/12/2008
Posts: 1096

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 18:38

Girne29 - unless I am missing something, you don't seem to have grasped the point that many people, myself included, live abroad but are still obliged to pay UK income tax.

Not a problem for me, as I still live in the EU (for now!).

dalartokat


Joined: 14/04/2008
Posts: 734

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 19:34

Source: Ministry of Health



Anyone who is deemed to be ordinarily resident in the UK is entitled to free NHS hospital treatment in England. “Ordinarily resident” is a common law concept interpreted by the House of Lords in 1982 as someone who is living lawfully in the United Kingdom voluntarily and for settled purposes as part of the regular order of their life for the time being, with an identifiable purpose for their residence here which has a sufficient degree of continuity to be properly described as settled.



Anyone who is not ordinarily resident is subject to the National Health Service (Charges to Overseas Visitors) Regulations 2011. These regulations place a responsibility on NHS hospitals to establish whether a person is ordinarily resident; or exempt from charges under one of a number of exemption categories; or liable for charges.

dalartokat


Joined: 14/04/2008
Posts: 734

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 19:34

What about British Nationals? I have paid taxes in the past.



Nationality or past or present payments of UK taxes and National Insurance contributions are not taken into consideration when establishing residence. The only thing relevant is whether you ordinarily live in the UK.



Source: Ministry of Health

Tango1


Joined: 19/02/2011
Posts: 1151

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 20:31

We have just been turned flat by the Overseas Residents Department in large teaching hospital in Norfolk. All the rules are regulations boil down to one thing and one thing only YOU MUST RESIDE IN THE UK FOR 6 consecutive months before applying for an Op. Owning property used to be the final arbiter of being OK for an Op. this has now been closed as of mid-August. If anyone manages to get an Op. now, then they are very, very lucky. The beaurocrats have over-riden a decision made by our GP and the consultant that an Op. was necesary.



Paying NI. is not good enough, currently paying UK taxes is not enough, UK passport/citizen is not enough, on electoral role is not enough, owning property in UK is not enough. The absolute minimum requirement is the minimum 6 months residency. BTW we have just had a bill for £165 for cancelling the Op. We didn't cancel it, the beaurocrats did but we still have to pay!!

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
09/12/2011 21:02

Lapta Mike,



I'm glad to hear this and long may your treatment continue.However don't take it for granted.

Follow this link and read the comment from ROYTRNC dated May 2011.



http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/Healthcareabroad/movingabroad/Pages/Livingabroad.aspx

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
10/12/2011 15:33

Tango, how did they know you hadn't lived in the UK for 6 prior months?

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
10/12/2011 16:24

Amazing Blade what computers can do these days? Can you show your paying council tax? Water bills? Utilities? All registered in your name and not listed as an unoccupied house.



That's where people are becoming unstuck and identified.