Justice at last for the Lawrence family!

ozziemyboy


Joined: 31/08/2011
Posts: 92

Message Posted:
04/01/2012 16:55

‎18 years is a long time to wait but justice is finally done!!!! Well done to the Lawrence family! Their persistence finally paid off! If it was my child I would not have been able to rest until his killers were behind bars ! Only now can the Lawrence family grieve their loss . God bless them xxxx

Jovial_John


Joined: 31/01/2009
Posts: 1024

Message Posted:
04/01/2012 17:37

I am afraid that the Lawrence family did not help themsleves.

They brought a failed private prosecution which prevented the authorities from prosecuting until the 'double jeopardy' ruling was altered recently. Had they waited then the convictions just achieved would have happened many years ago.

johnerebus



Joined: 15/05/2009
Posts: 72

Message Posted:
04/01/2012 17:38

Doreen Lawrence has tremendous resolve and strength and is a woman greatly admired. To continue fighting for justice for 18 years is almost unbelievable.

Stephen's mum said yesterday, that she welcomes his legacy, the changes to how the bereaved of murder victims are treated in the UK but she'd rather her son was still alive.

I pass Stephen's plaque, the spot where he died in Well Hall Rd, twice a week and it's been desecrated a few times although there are flowers on it today.

The accused were sentenced to life earlier today which means 14 and 15 years as the sentencing judge had to take in to account they were both minors when they were involved in the murder of Stephen.

davpat


Joined: 23/08/2011
Posts: 225

Message Posted:
04/01/2012 18:19

...............ONLY ANOTHER 3 TO GET CONVICTED,there were 5 involved according to the police,good luck to them,I hope they get the bar stewards!!





David

parkview



Joined: 12/03/2009
Posts: 1123

Message Posted:
04/01/2012 18:31

I am so pleased for the family, I cannot imagine what it must have been like for them to know their sons killers were free. I prey they others also get convicted of this heinous crime.

paddywack


Joined: 04/05/2009
Posts: 959

Message Posted:
04/01/2012 18:57

If plod had done the job right to start,justice would have been served years ago.

Jonesy299


Joined: 07/02/2009
Posts: 367

Message Posted:
04/01/2012 20:17

Hope the others who took part in this callous and cowardly attack are shaking in their boots and get what they deserve.... well done to Mr and (ex) Mrs Lawrence

phylray



Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
04/01/2012 21:02

Glad to hear this news if very belated. At least a couple more scumbags off our streets.

Hope they now get the others.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
04/01/2012 21:20

Sadly just seen the news and heard that it is unlikely they will secure convictions on the other 3 unless new and compelling evidence is found. Still a lot of fear and even if the 2 imprisoned, sing like canaries. it would be insufficient evidence.



What a pity, it would have been good to see all those involved finally brought to justice. Much respect for the Lawrence family who have never stopped with their mission to see Stephan's murders on trial and held accountable for their evil actions.

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
04/01/2012 21:46

Maybe they will Bradus! for once the Met Police seem focused, sleeping in their beds (for the other 3 or 4) I am sure will be difficult! as for Mrs Lawrence, she Never Gave Up & Never gave in, her son was murdered and for 18 years she continued in her mission, she looks tired! but must feel happy that justice has prevailed! I have so much respect for her, and yes I agree the rest of those involved also need to be brought to justice! I think the Police know this, and will endevour to get convictions! All those involved must be held accountable!

shrimp


Joined: 01/09/2010
Posts: 939

Message Posted:
05/01/2012 00:06

The daily mail called these two 'murders' 18 years ago and it is partly due to their persistence that these killers are now behind bars, they have their eye on the other three dont worry, they wont let it drop until all five are under lock and key......

EamonnMc


Joined: 18/06/2010
Posts: 1019

Message Posted:
05/01/2012 01:25

I also hope that all the guilty are brought to justice and quickly but I also hope that the British police have not taken any "short cuts " in their investigations and have presented the evidence in a totally honest way ! Sadly, they have a track record of evidence contamination, perjury and intimidation of witnesses ! Any sloppiness on their behalf will result in unsafe convictions and the guilty going free ! It's happened before and doubtless will happen again unless they get their act together !! The job of any police force is to gather the evidence , put it before a court of law and leave it to a jury to decide , nothing more and nothing less !!

marcosthechef



Joined: 30/11/2009
Posts: 646

Message Posted:
05/01/2012 12:29

I have always followed this story as I lived nearby at the time and was horrified by the whole incident and the ensuing process, having read the press yesterday it looks like the other animals involved are in for a really bad ride now, they have (the press) started destroying their lives with details of wifes and girlfriends and the fact that some of them dont have an income but have nice cars and houses !!!!



Enjoy your lives now scumbags

beautychick


Joined: 20/12/2011
Posts: 107

Message Posted:
05/01/2012 12:38

I also lived near by and it's about time they put these scumbags away. The family has started to finally get some long awaited justice, as far as i'm concerned they should of been tried as adults as that is what they are now.



They stole more from that family than just their son and I hope they enjoy prison.



Rest in peace Stephen.

fidelis


Joined: 16/11/2011
Posts: 33

Message Posted:
05/01/2012 17:02

Justice delayed is justice denied.But thank God it finally came after almost two decades. The world is fast becoming a global village and so i think the administration of any country should stand strongly against racism.

Riddles


Joined: 26/04/2011
Posts: 429

Message Posted:
05/01/2012 23:46

I loath the 'Daily Mail' but even I , a Guardian reader, must congratulate them on a brave and utterly moral stance on this case ...well done!

BigMart


Joined: 26/02/2009
Posts: 423

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 08:51

Would there would have been as much fuss if it was a white lad that had been killed ?



Just a question, don't all get on your moral high horses.

cyprusjoker


Joined: 29/08/2009
Posts: 1107

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 09:12

2/5 black guys murdering 1 white guy, i think yes there would have been as much fuss. How much bird will these 2 scumbags get i wonder

johnerebus



Joined: 15/05/2009
Posts: 72

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 10:07

Would you like to clarify your question please BigMart as it's too unspecific to answer intelligently? I.e. who made a 'fuss'? The parents; the police; the judiciary; black people; white people; Jack Straw the Home Secretary who instigated the Mcpherson report or Uncle Tom Cobbly n all? It has taken two police inquiries, a public inquiry, and the Macpherson Report, to reveal the extent of the corruption and the conscious and unconscious racism that afflicted the police force investigating Stephen Lawrence's murder. Is this the fuss you imply?

Also, some of the Oxford Dictionary definitions of the word 'fuss' include: treatment of trifles as important; abundance of petty detail; busy oneself restlessly with trifles; bustle and excessive commotion. Hmnn. Murder is a trifle?

These are not 'moral high horse' questions and comments as my horses are out grazing in the fields of justice at the moment.

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 19:32

I am not convince this is a secure conviction of these guys at all.



What concerns me is that there were a lot of names/ people the police thought were involved in this crime. So why in all these years did not one of them grass up the others or tell the truth.? It would have only been human nature for one to tell something at some point. That didn't happen.



My thoughts are trial by media which happens in so many cases and i belive that is where the law needed changing in the UK, not the double jepody one.

They were aquitted the first time around, remembering they were kids at the time. In truth if they couldn't make a conviction stand then, i don't see how they will make it stand now? They do have a right of appeal.

The truth of this case i think is far from out in the open or over for the Lawrence family.

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 19:36

Msg 20, well said

a lot of people are thinking the same

but not brave enough to say it .



Changing the "double-jeapory" law is wrong

viper


Joined: 14/07/2008
Posts: 119

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 20:15

I agree totally with msg 20

How can they now go further with this case when the other suspects have already been found guilty buy the media !! British law is 'innocent till found guilty' at least it used to be till judge 'Mail' was appointed.





viper

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 20:19

Blade,



Since the first trial, DNA techniques have improved and it was this new forensic evidence that has secured the conviction. It placed the accused firmly at the crime scene and their clothing contaminated with the victims blood.



Surely everyone just wants the guilty behind bars. If the double jeopardy law does this, then I feel it was the right decision, especially with forensic science developing all the time.

shrimp


Joined: 01/09/2010
Posts: 939

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 20:46

Exactly..........You took the words out of my mouth............

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 20:50

So Bradus i hear what you are saying, but think about this:

I borrow your jacket tonigh ( cos thats what teenagers do) i commited a crime. The blood is on your jacket! not mine. Both your DNA and mine and the victims are on that jacket. So which one of us was wearing it? Can you as the owner prove you weren't the one wearing it? Your word against mine! So lets ask the jury which one of us they belive. Will they make the right choice?



Sorry i still see that this is an unsafe conviction.



The trouble is within the UK we still have trial by media, hence you can't get a good sound conviction. Yes, we all want people convicted IF they commited the crime. But i belive under the current system thats just not the case. My thoughts are that until someone is found gulity by a jury their names and details should not be released by the press or anyone else.



Being arrested for a crime is not the same as commiting one!

EamonnMc


Joined: 18/06/2010
Posts: 1019

Message Posted:
06/01/2012 20:59

See my previous msg 12 ! One only has to think of the Jill Dando case where Barry George was convicted on dodgy forensic evidence !

onehand


Joined: 06/01/2012
Posts: 13

Message Posted:
07/01/2012 08:06

I also agree that I thought the evidence was a bit dubious despite improvements in DNA etc.

It is fantastic if these guys were guilty to be prosecuted but if they were innocent then it is a gross miscarriage of justice. Interesting point too there bigmart that you make - this case has received a lot of ongoing publicity and police involvement and I know of many other similar cases were a coloured person was not the victim but the perpetrator and nothing more is heard!!

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
07/01/2012 10:32

msge 17

Would there would have been as much fuss if it was a white lad that had been killed ?



I think your question is clear. It’s also a very important one to ask, one that we are not allowed to submit. The Lawrence case is highly symbolic and it has always attracted more publicity than similar cases. There are some very interested parties involved.



I think there is a real problem.



Male whites are (now) treated differently to ethnics. As a sikh pointed out, sikhs who protected their unthreatened temples during the summer riots were hailed as noble warriors, whereas the male whites who defended their streets in Enfield, were described by the establishment as racists.



The race relations act was an important piece of legislation, however it took on a new meaning after the tragic and wrongful death of Lawrence and the subsequent Macpherson report. The Equalities commission, ever since, have taken on a religious zeal not dissimilar to mccarthyism,

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
07/01/2012 10:33

‘finding reds under every bed’, or more to the point ‘a racist bigot behind every door’. Equality officers (the stasi), of which there are many (and well paid), proactively look for racists, doing so enables them to hit their targets, which is based on the presumption that most whites are racist. As the equalities commission announced recently, the Caucasian population has made improvements in their racial tolerance, but they can still do better.



Professor Peter Saunders writes about Police treatment at the Lawrence inquiry. “Macphersons inquiry abandoned many of the traditional features of English law. Witnesses were harassed, not only by the enquiry team, but by the crowd in the public gallery. They had to admit to having ‘racist thoughts’ and even to testify to the existence of racist thoughts among their colleagues. Norman Dennis (civitas) likens the proceedings to a Stalinist show trial from the 1930’s”.

bertieboss


Joined: 22/07/2011
Posts: 149

Message Posted:
08/01/2012 05:27

Racists are racists are racists !!

There is no excuse under any circumstances in a "civilised" society.

A young man is dead because of the actions of a bunch of morons and people are still trying to excuse it!!

And now another young man has been murdered recently by Psycho!!??

When will you apologists give over?

You're like Hitler supporters before the second world war!!

onehand


Joined: 06/01/2012
Posts: 13

Message Posted:
08/01/2012 07:22

I think the point is when there is a crime against any ethnic minority by a white person it is always classed as a racially motivated crime. However, when the attack is against a white person by an ethnic minority person it is usually `swept under the carpet'. Certainly the reported facts in this instance rarely mention the race of the perpetrator or is certainly the case where I come from.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
08/01/2012 15:31

msge 30



I agree that there is no excuse for 'racism' in a civilised society.



From what I have read on here, I can't see that anybody condones the killing of Stephen Lawrence. I can see there are two issues that have come up:



1) That some people question the evidence. This could be a debate that anybody has about any murder. It just so happens that this is a race murder, so a typical response from people who think like you, is that those who question it must be Hitler supporters. This autocratic principled tone destroys debate.

2) That some people question whether there is equality. This would be the wrong thing to debate if the murder was fresh, but we are 18 years after the event. The perception of a fair society is essential for its good running. From what I see on here some believe there is equality and some question it.

EamonnMc


Joined: 18/06/2010
Posts: 1019

Message Posted:
08/01/2012 15:33

Bertieboss,

I agree, racists are racists are racists But just because a person of a different colour/religion/ethnicity is a victim of crime does not make it a racist crime. There is, in some people, this compulsion to rush to this judgement when most of the time the culprit/ attacker doesn't care what your colour etc is ! Most crimes are crimes of opportunity and many of the victims are just perceived by their attackers, as just being vulnerable , that's why the cowards attack ! What happened to Stephen Lawrence was a heinous crime and was racist but, it could just as easily been an old age pensioner who was attacked at a bus stop by the vicious thugs that roam the city streets in search of hapless victims !

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
08/01/2012 16:05

correction msge 32



...is that those who question the evidence must be....

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
07/02/2012 00:01

Both are now launching an appeal

EamonnMc


Joined: 18/06/2010
Posts: 1019

Message Posted:
07/02/2012 01:45

Msg 35,



Now there's a surprise !

gloox


Joined: 05/02/2012
Posts: 4

Message Posted:
07/02/2012 05:08

justice at last for them wonderfull.