Cyprus Today Newspaper Publishes an Apology to Akfinans Bank Ltd

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
03/03/2012 12:31

Cyprus Today Newspaper dated March 3, 2012 has published an apology to Akfinans Bank Ltd. for their publication on page 12 dated 12 May 2010. Such late apologies usually follow a court case and an out of court settlement.



However I object strongly to the following paragraph:

"This publication of Cyprus Today on this subject cannot be quoted or referred to without approval of A-N Graphics (Kıbrıs) Ltd. "



No sir, I do not agree with such a restriction and my full details are in my profile which can be viewed here. http://www.cyprus44.com/forums/show-member.asp?member=elko2

I will be happy to provide further details if required. I hate when I see such new laws made up. Would they care to sue me?



ismet

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
03/03/2012 12:45

Well done Ismet.

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
03/03/2012 13:08

The cat is already out of the bag as regards the way Akfinans bank does business and how it treats people. They can sue others but can't put the cat back in the bag.



All this has achieved or will achieve is to draw further attention to how the bank operates and it's business ethics.

Barking


Joined: 07/02/2012
Posts: 51

Message Posted:
03/03/2012 13:18

This is a link to it



► http://tinyurl.com/8xpxkev



and an announcement by the bankers ► http://tinyurl.com/6tq9atl



Tom Roach has it right here ► http://tinyurl.com/76abyo7

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
03/03/2012 13:30

"..all actions of AKFINANS BANK LTD were legal and in accordance with a banks professional reputation and integrity."



Their actions may have been legal in the TRNC but what does that say about the TRNC justice system?



I think I have decided what I think of the banks reputation and integrity.

TimothyCadman


Joined: 13/12/2007
Posts: 1040

Message Posted:
03/03/2012 13:43

Akfinans Bank......YOU STINK TO THE CORE.

Just because your beef is with the owners who mortgaged the land with your investors money doesn't morally make it correct for you to take no moral care over those who have properties, and paid tens of thousands of pounds to a builder in good faith, for you to say, "We own these houses, now bugger off we owe you nothing. Sue the builder if you want your money back, or pay us what the builder owes us to keep your home." Your business ethics just stink.

I hope that you never sell a property on that site and they fall into rack and ruin and you never get a penny back then it will be COK EYUP (Shame on you) for being the bullies that you are.

Everything cannot just come down to it being lawfully legal. Morales and ethics in business should be paramount. But then again we need to look at our law makers who make sure that there are no morales or ethics in law so that business can make huge profits from those who can't afford to lose money.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
03/03/2012 13:49

I was asked today by someone whether they should buy property in North Cyprus and for the first time in 10 years holidaying here I found myself saying no.

Has anyone got a copy of the offending Cyprus Today article for Ismet to publish? None of the links are to the actual article. It would be interesting to see if Ismet's faith in Turkish Cypriot justice is well founded.

pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
03/03/2012 13:53

Ismet, Troodo, Hector, Barking, Timothy, malsancak, you are my heros.



setpot - Do not break the law.

pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
03/03/2012 14:01

Do not get yourself into any bother Ismet, we all need you.

the butler


Joined: 22/06/2007
Posts: 1958

Message Posted:
03/03/2012 14:12

I could not believe what I was reading when I read the apology in todays Cyprus Today to the Bank. The aplology that is needed is to the poor people whose homes they are going to auction for even complating doing this.



It shouts of desperation on the part of the bank, obviously their business has seriously been affected by the bad publicity surrounding this case. Shame on them and serves them right for having absolutely no morals or business ethic.





The butlers wife

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
03/03/2012 14:21

Polly, whatever I do, I do it for my personal pleasure. As if you don't know, it gives me great pleasure to appear in court and have my way when I am in the right.



It is a criminal offence to start rumours about the financial standing of a bank because any bank can go under like this. However it is not illegal to challenge the morals or integrity of a bank for their actions. Let us not confuse the two.



I am waiting to get hold of the new law passed recently about the provisions limiting the total interest accrued. This law applies to those cases in court as well. However the unfortunate thing is that K5 cases have passed that point i.e. a court verdict was pronounced some years ago. Hence it will be difficult to bring K5 case under this new law.

I don't know how true it is but it is claimed that 100,000 TL debt grew into 2,000,000 debt. If enough political pressure is put on this bank they may voluntarily decide to reduce this amount in accordance with the new law.

ismet

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
03/03/2012 14:27

Following from message no. 11 above, I am not so optimistic about Pauline's position. She sued the developer and was granted compensation. Thus her legal link to the house in question is severed. The fact that she could not collect any of this money is another matter. This is how the law works everywhere, not just TRNC. Of course, with hindsight, her lawyer should have insisted that the Specific Performance Law did not apply in her case and go for the house. Alternatively for compensation just in case. Its too late now for her. I am sorry.

ismet

pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
03/03/2012 14:32

Why then ismet has she been allowed to take part in then K5 domestic cases and the ECHR case?



Apparently the advocate told her she in till the end or until she gets her money from the award.

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
03/03/2012 14:41

I have not seen the actual offending article in Cyprus Today but I imagine too much is written without being checked by the legal department.



Looking at the apology itself, it was correct to state what was stated up to "...all actions of AKFİNANS BANK LTD. on this matter were legal" but it carried on to say "and in accordance with a bank's professional reputation and integrity".

If anything was written in the original article that said or implied that any action of the bank was illegal etc. then this apology is in order except the last bit which I quoted. I presume that the newspaper had to agree to the apology as given or they would be found at fault and ordered to pay compensation. Out of court settlements are usually like this i.e. you give something and you take something.



In my view, the way the bank is conducting this case is not in accordance with the expected reputation and integrity of a bank. I expect them to apply the new law on bank debts even though they don't have to legally but they have to morally.

ismet

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
03/03/2012 14:48

msg. 13, Polly,

Pauline can take part in any case that the lawyer dealing with the case sees fit but wait for the final verdict to see if I am right or wrong.

The ECHR case is different. She has suffered through no fault of her own, rather the negligence of the local authority i.e. TRNC. They should have the safeguards in place so that innocent buyers should not endure such injustices. You have a strong case at ECHR.

ismet

tomsteel


Joined: 22/06/2009
Posts: 482

Message Posted:
03/03/2012 15:05

If users of this forum feel the CT apology is incorrect, let the editor know your feelings, page 2 has all the contact details. Are there any links between the CT publisher and managing director and the board members of the bank in question? (Rhetorical).

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
03/03/2012 15:09

tomsteel,

The fact that CT does not want this apology to be referred to elsewhere shows how uncomfortable they are themselves. Enough said, no need to protest.

ismet

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
03/03/2012 15:42

I think it means that the original article by Tom Roche can't be republished, quoted or even referred to without permission.

Marion


Joined: 06/03/2011
Posts: 1816

Message Posted:
03/03/2012 15:55

Could someone please scan the article and give a link to it. I would love to read it, but cannot access it where I am. Please someone!

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
03/03/2012 16:14

Marion

The link is at 4 above

suehowlittle


Joined: 31/10/2010
Posts: 1202

Message Posted:
03/03/2012 16:20

So, reading all this it appears that whoever has the most money has the most clout and integrity and morals have nothing to do with anything.



I am so sad about all this. So shameful not just for the bank but for the TRNC. I will never understand why the government have not intervened in some way to make all this go away. Don't even try to tell me that the government could not have done this, I will never believe that.

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
03/03/2012 16:23

Did I read somewhere that a complaint has been made to the HQ of Cheshire Homes in the UK? Is the CH in NC under the umbrella of the UK HQ?

rocking


Joined: 05/11/2008
Posts: 421

Message Posted:
03/03/2012 16:25

As stated in an earlier threat I started 'stupid statement' I could not believe my eyes when seeing the nearly third page given over to an apology - thought Publish and be Damned would be appropriate. Have not any suitable adjectives to put on here as to what I think of this Bank - robbers without baraclavas.

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
03/03/2012 16:27

Sorry re 22, wrong thread

tomsteel


Joined: 22/06/2009
Posts: 482

Message Posted:
03/03/2012 16:37

Elko, 100% with your view. However, if sufficient CT readers felt strongly enough to stop buying it and advertisers took away their custom, maybe - just maybe, the local English-speaking press might publish the property scams and lack of judicial governance as the Cypriot Turkish media does and not hide behind an apology for reporting bad-press for a bank. Irrespective of the current property law here, the said bank has behaved in a reprehensible manner to old and frail people IMHO.

Marion


Joined: 06/03/2011
Posts: 1816

Message Posted:
03/03/2012 16:44

thanks Hector for referring me to the link. why oh why has c.t published this? Is it connected with the cutting off the electricity at the site this week caused by a bill run up by certain people. But whilst I may not be a lawyer, or a financier, and therefore may not understand the finer details of this, I thought the money was loaned to an indiv idual who must be responsible for the repayment. Logic seems to say that man borrows money, man does not pay back money, man gets away with non repayment, money reclaimed from owners of buildings purchased by hard earned money of elderly Brits for money loaned on the land! Various court cases ensue while man who borrowed money cannot be found, even though he is known to be living in Turkey.

perhaps I need some further education on this, but I cannot make sense of it. Can anyone help me to understand where I am going wrong. and before anyone asks, this is Marion the individual speaking - not any professional capacity.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
03/03/2012 16:58

Apparently Ismet would be guilty of "creating public opinion" against Akfinans Bank if here were to say, as Tom Roche said, that "the bank has shown its true colours; attempting to wash its hands of any responsibility towards those it intends to make homeless and using classic bully boy tactics to silence its critics."

tomsteel


Joined: 22/06/2009
Posts: 482

Message Posted:
03/03/2012 17:10

Hi again Marion - long time no hear.

I guess only the CT Editor could answer your first point.

My understanding of the situation is the apology was published relating to an article published in May 2010, ergo it has nothing to do with the recent electricity issue, which is yet another story waiting to be properly investigated and reported.

Your precis of the background to this debacle is, it appears, as we are led to believe.

I, and I expect many others too, have no answers that make sense - be that, common, legal or moral. The complete property business here, from start to finish, needs an urgent legal review with retrospective punitive action permissable againt any who have broken the contracts. Never going to happen!

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
03/03/2012 17:13

Who was the developer?

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
03/03/2012 17:20

I've just googled the name of a certain bank. I wonder what their reaction would be if the headlines and articles that came up had also been written in Turkish or Russian for the benefit of a wider audience? Just a thought.

spider


Joined: 03/01/2009
Posts: 5527

Message Posted:
03/03/2012 17:21

Cyprus Today have given me the biggest laugh as yet with their notice in today's paper



http://postimage.org/image/cxs08msdh/



I think it all dated back to '' THIS '' and what has happened since.! Are they going give an apology for this story. If so my view is they should start from the beginning,and from whence it started.



What kind of newspaper are they. They did after all print '' The truth''



Oh yes do not break the law haha.



Spider,X .

Marion


Joined: 06/03/2011
Posts: 1816

Message Posted:
03/03/2012 17:21

Never say never, tom Steel! But it does often look that way. glad that my logic is logical! My heart bleeds for the K5 people, and I am sure that were Denktash still alive he would be trying to get some proper justice . I am sure that eventually (if our country wants to be recognised on the international scene) these dreadful property situations will be resolved, but 'eventually' is not good enough for some of the victims whose lives are being made a misery through no faul t of their own. I guess we need a few miracles!

Marion


Joined: 06/03/2011
Posts: 1816

Message Posted:
03/03/2012 17:25

By the way who are these A & N graphics whose permission must be sought? I am quite at a loss to understand this!

spider


Joined: 03/01/2009
Posts: 5527

Message Posted:
03/03/2012 17:27

I would just like to add.



Be afraid Cyprus Today be very afraid. The banks might just take you to court as often as they do poor Pauline Read and the K5 victims.



Hmmm, cover you backs real well. Appalling peace of printing in my humble opinion.





Spider,X

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
03/03/2012 17:53

Nothing to do with A sil N adir ?

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
03/03/2012 18:06

Tomsteel,

I never suggested that people stop buying CT. As I explained earlier in previous posts above, probably they did not have the article in question screened by their legal department and they were probably liable to pay compensation for libel. I am guessing that they settled out of court and printed this apology which went further than what the bank deserved. However probably it was this settlement or risk a penalty. after all CT is a commercial enterprise.

Marion,

Since you asked above I will try to "educate"

If a man borrows money from a bank and agrees to mortgage his land as security, the bank has the right to sell the property at auction and get the proceeds. Of course, there are many complications in this instance e.g. a) no registration of sale contracts at the time, b) allegedly 100,000 TL borrowed grew to 2,000,000 TL, c) the buyers were never party to the relevant court case, d) constructive notice of such sales were not taken into account etc. etc.

ismet

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
03/03/2012 18:09

Was it pre=74 Turkish ?

hence the PTP problem

Marion


Joined: 06/03/2011
Posts: 1816

Message Posted:
03/03/2012 18:11

Thanks Elko, but surely when you say 'property' this refers to the land on which he borrowed the money, and one can quite understand the legality of such a move. I thought the purchasers of the properties on this land, bought a year before the mortgage was taken out, and I thought (what do I know>?) that the contracts had been registered. I know how the debt grew due to accrued interest and I am aware of some other bits an dpieces, but I wonder if such has ever happened before either in TRNC or anywhere else. I guess there are times when the law is definitely 'a ass' or in this case a field full of them.(asses, I mean)

newscoop


Joined: 23/12/2007
Posts: 2197

Message Posted:
03/03/2012 18:27

Marion;



take on board what Elko says



By the LETTER OF THE LAW the bank are in the right, is the law an ass?



Make up your own mind



If it was another publication I feel sure they would find themselves in the same boat



How's your expose going with the blood test/residency fiasco?

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
03/03/2012 18:54

Property law in Cyprus is very strange and not for those not into gambling, to quote a local judge. If the same laws were applied to buying a tin of beans then your till receipt (contract of sale) would be useless in determining ownership. Common sense would have you believe that once you paid for the beans and received a receipt then you were legally the owner. However, if the shopkeeper hadn't paid for his stock then if Cyprus property law was applied then the supplier could demand the beans back and the law would support them I suppose.

Why is this important? Well expats are still being fooled into believing that the contract they paid in excess of £1000 for has any worth and if it isn't that they can get their money back from the conveyancer who wrote it. Unless you have title deeds in your name then you could be the next K5 purchaser and look how they're being treated here.

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
03/03/2012 18:57

What if the beans were not originally owned by the shop?

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
03/03/2012 19:07

or the TC owner of the beans was forced to leave the country in 1964 or the Brits took the beans from the Turkish owner after ww1 because Turkey was the enemy during the war and gave then them to a GC? Or GC bean registry workers falsified till receipts and left no trace?

pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
03/03/2012 19:08

watch out watch out there's a setpot about.....dont vote, you will get into trouble if you dont give the answer they are looking for. sorry got carried away counting.

pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
03/03/2012 19:15

A bean

a beand and a half

a bean and a half and

a bean



Who said I didn't know how many beans make five.

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
03/03/2012 21:25

msg 43,

Polly,

I closed the thread, removed the link and banned setpot for life. I suspect he is someone acting for someone who may want to have C44 closed. We all have to be careful.

ismet

pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
03/03/2012 21:31

I know exactly who he is. Clearly trying to goad me and we all know pollmarples is a pussy cat. Thanks ismet, it was turning into a witch hunt. Hubble bubble toil and trouble.

southey


Joined: 22/01/2011
Posts: 4

Message Posted:
03/03/2012 21:38

I for one will never buy Cyprus again

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
03/03/2012 22:26

I agree southey, anyone who does buy Cyprus Today again is a complete idiot!

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
03/03/2012 22:32

Well, I buy it occasionally and will continue to do so.

ismet

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
03/03/2012 23:01

That's up to your conscience ismet!

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
03/03/2012 23:39

TRNC Victim,

Can you tell me please the reason why you do not wish to buy it? Honestly, I can't understand it. They were forced to publish an apology and it is so clear that they are not very happy with it. That is a fact of life.

ismet

astro941


Joined: 22/05/2011
Posts: 193

Message Posted:
04/03/2012 01:02

Did I hear right Fakinans Bank?

Marion


Joined: 06/03/2011
Posts: 1816

Message Posted:
04/03/2012 03:59

I know nothing about the facts behind this apology but I suspect that the paper was caught between a rock and a hard place. they must have their reasons for doing this, because the owners are sensible business people . don't judge them for this and it is no reason to stop buying their paper. As someone says, it could be any publication.



I think it is very sad that some things that happen in TRNC have ramifications no one expects and which are outside law as one may know it in their own country (or the country from which they have come). It is difficult to learn the law as a lawyer, let alone as a 'yabanci'. It is also very frightening, but one has a choice sometimes - to live with it, accept it if possible, or make other plans for your life (unless trapped - but even then, one can live with an acceptance to make life bearable for oneself.

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
04/03/2012 08:03

The older generation from UK will remember ASTMS (Association of Scientific, Technical and Managerial Staffs). I was a member and our group in Hammersmith London decided to have a weekly bulletin sheet. I became the editor and the first thing I did was to study the laws of libel.

Specially what I learned was this: Write your facts first, those that you can prove and then make your comments in a separate paragraph. You must get your facts right but you are free to comment as you please. The law does not say that you must be reasonable in your comments as long as facts and comments are are clearly understood and not mixed. This rule is hardly observed in our papers and this is where the problem begins.

ismet

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
04/03/2012 09:01

elko2/Msg 14:



'Looking at the apology itself, it was correct to state what was stated up to "...all actions of AKFİNANS BANK LTD. on this matter were legal" but it carried on to say "and in accordance with a bank's professional reputation and integrity".'



Is what 'Cyprus Today', in effect, saying is to pronounce a dire warning to any prospective purchaser of property in TRNC?



If this is the TRNC code of conduct of 'professional reputation and integrity', then any buyers without title deeds

and who have not paid 'Stamp Duty' may consider themselve fair game to such 'professional skulduggery'.



Did not Mr. Rauf Denktash, at the Kulaksiz 5 auction held at the Karsiyaka coffee shop, warn the assembly that there were another 1400 similar cases in the pipeline?



Please correct me if I am wrong, but that is what I believe I heard him say in his speech.



I wonder how many present heard the very same?

pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
04/03/2012 09:08

I heard it too Tena. Apparently there are and could be even more, add to it the number of Memorandums (tutuska an example) where then owner is so far down the list of creditors they have no chance. Then all the no builds, half builds, bad builds, you pay my tax scenario, Builder electric tariff, no water, no hope...

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
04/03/2012 09:28

as long as you don't expect Cyprus Today to stand up to people in power who sometimes abuse that power whilst staying within local laws then it's a good read. However, if you are looking for an editorial policy of standing up against immoral and unethical actions and mobilising opinion against them then CT is not the read for you. Democratic countries allow opinion to be expressed as has happened recently in Spain ( http://tinyurl.com/77ob9y7) against banks evicting home owners behind in their mortgage payments. Akfinans Bank is terrified of people like Tom Roche and Pauline Read mobilising opinion against them. I'm surprised that Ismet hasn't noticed that the words that Akfinans Bank is trying to stop are not libel, they are opinion, as in "it is immoral and unethical for Akfinans to evict Kulaksiz 5 home owners." Somehow, it has become illegal here to say those words.This is what the revolutions going on around the Middle East are all about and those in power are terrified of the same

birdman



Joined: 20/09/2010
Posts: 690

Message Posted:
04/03/2012 09:48

I feel sure that Ismet is correct in that the "APOLOGY" was written and forced upon C.T. to publish as "PRESENTED" by AKFINANSBANK. ( Although I do not know the facts, - there covered myself!)



I cannot comprehend that they would deliberately have included the last sentence :- "In accordance with a banks professional reputation and integrity" OTHER BANKS YES, in my opinion, AKFINANS NO.



WHAT PROFESSIONALISM AND INTEGRITY HAVE AKFINANS BANK SHOWN?



I applaud CT for their front page article about the shutting off and re-instating of the K5 electricity. Well done, but then to my horror I read the Apology on page 12 .



Who says "This publication of Cyprus Today on this subject cannot be quoted or referred to without approval of A-N Graphics (Kibris) Ltd." ?



Talk about the press stifling the press ! Stop it Cyprus Today !!!



Gerry

astro941


Joined: 22/05/2011
Posts: 193

Message Posted:
04/03/2012 09:48

It is interesting to google afikans, the name appears to be ring fenced by complaints. This can be no good for the banks' image and wouldn't it be good if the bank used integrity and self regulated this issue. Perhaps then their Public google image would contain references to well done afikans instead of negative references.

dalartokat


Joined: 14/04/2008
Posts: 734

Message Posted:
04/03/2012 10:37

With the Banks in TRNC whose laws do they follow. TRNC or Turkey. Looking yesterday The Banks Association of Turkey-Banking Law 5411 as of Sept.2008 ( states as a translation has no legal value) however the following:



Ethical Principles - Article 75 = Banks and their personnel shall ensure that the Banks' activities are performed in compliance with this Law, the applicable regulations and the Banks' establishment goals and policies and comply with ethical principles that take justice, fairness, honesty and social responsibility as a basis in their management.



On the other hand

Protection of reputation - Article 74 - No real or legal person shall intentionally damage the reputation, prestige or assets of a Bank or disseminate inaccurate news either using any means of communication defined in the Press Code No.5187 or radio, television, video, internet, cable TV or electronic data communication devices and similar tools.



Does the TRNC following similar banking rules?

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
04/03/2012 10:49

North Cyprus Free Press would be more than happy to launch an internet campaign reversing Akfinan Bank's image and would be able to fill the Google first page with positive stories about the bank - when they start coming in.

spider


Joined: 03/01/2009
Posts: 5527

Message Posted:
04/03/2012 11:29

I have just this morning been reading an update on the North Cyprus Free Press.



http://northcyprusfreepress.com/2012/03/04/akfinans-bank-v-pauline-read-a-violation-of-my-privacy-and-my-human-rights/



How many more time are they going to keep taking all victims through the courts.



I just can not imagine walking a mile in the shoes



Spider,X

Earlybird


Joined: 28/04/2009
Posts: 816

Message Posted:
04/03/2012 11:40

IMO Pauline Read is one of very few who will stand up to bullying tactics aimed at shutting her up from expressing her opinion. Having read NCFP, it appears that she is only accusing them of being not nice and not doing anything illegal under TRNC laws. All she is saying is that it's not nice chucking people out of their homes and I agree with that sentiment.

newscoop


Joined: 23/12/2007
Posts: 2197

Message Posted:
04/03/2012 19:17

NCFP unlike Ct is not subject to the 'laws' of TRNC.

pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
04/03/2012 19:26

Is what newscoop says true Ismet?

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
04/03/2012 21:22

msg.65,

Polly,

I will not express my opinion in public on this issue because I do not want to give some ideas to this bank or their legal team. I have a complicated view on the matter and not a straight yes or no.

ismet

TheScarlets



Joined: 14/04/2009
Posts: 877

Message Posted:
04/03/2012 21:28

Time to boycott Cyprus Today

pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
05/03/2012 07:12

Thanks ismet, you are wise.



The scarlets, I do not buy Cyprus Today often, but that is my personal choice. Boycotting anythin or anyone is not in my opinion fair to the ordinary men and women whose livelihood comes from working at a particular organisation. I know some people who work there and what is happening at present is making their jobs very difficult, so I cannot support this idea.



Also a bank, a bank cannot be bad, people can be good or bad. All those who derive their livelihoods from a bank should not be penalised. If profitability is the benchmark of success, I would say that the bank whose name I will not mention is at the moment in very good shape.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
05/03/2012 07:54

Ismet,

The first thing I would expect a bank with morality and integrity to do in the granting of a mortgage is 'due diligence' and discover whether the applicant had the moral right to borrow using as collateral an asset which was truthfully theirs to mortgage. In this instance, as the developer had already sold the houses to a third party, surely the answer is no? In these circumstances it seems clear that either the applicant committed a fraud on the bank, or if the bank knew about these circumstances they colluded with the applicant to undermine the rights of those the houses had been sold to.

Either way, the bank's negligence is not in my opinion, in accordance with best practice for a bank. Is it?

The bank's usury in charging extortionate rates of interest is a side issue but again one that reflects badly on their actions in my opinion. As such interest rates render the inability to repay a forgone conclusion. cont...

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
05/03/2012 07:59

If your are a 'responsible bank, you don't lend money in the hope that the applicant is going to win the Euromillions! Therefore all faults appear to lie with the bank and the constructor, which in any other country would be their look out.... The courts should have the rule of natural justice to the fore and tell the bank to look to their own failings.

As I understand it the TRNC President has refused to sign-off on the new law... so although passed, it has not yet come to fruition... maybe he's waiting for this to be a done deal before doing so under pressure - I hope not.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
05/03/2012 11:19

Akfinans Bank may have made mistakes but they have broken no TRNC laws. In my opinion, however, their behaviour has resulted in great suffering and as such is unacceptable and I personally could not use any institution that acted in such a way. But, for those who wish to make a lot of money, regardless of ethics and morality, Akfinans Bank seem to be making a lot of money for little outlay.

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
05/03/2012 11:32

msg 68 and 69,

Groucho,

I agree with your sentiments but unfortunately "Natural Justice" in the legal sense only deals with "fair trial" and not in a more general sense. I believe that UK courts would deal with such a case on the basis of "constructive notice" i.e. the bank with due diligence could find out that the property shown as collateral was already sold to others "on paper".



The new law about accrued interest was once sent back to parliament by the president for refinements. This was done and the president has passed it. the president is obliged to pass it the secon timne round and if he still has any objections he can take the matter to the Constitutional Court which he did not do. Thus the law was passed, it is valid now but I have not got a copy of it and waiting for it to be published on the internet site of the High Court.

The "fair trial" may be challenged on this case because the interested parties i.e. the buyers were not informed or given a chance to defend the case. The notion of "Interested Party" is well know in cases that comes up at the High Administrative Court but not known at other courts. Could it be done? Not sure.

ismet

winniethepooh


Joined: 04/03/2012
Posts: 11

Message Posted:
05/03/2012 12:07

elko2 - a question for you:



I was wondering. In the UK officers of a company have a duty to know what they would be expected to know as part of their responsibilities as say, directors. It is quite possible for a director to be charged with an offence in respect of something he should have known even though he didn't know or claims not to have known. It makes no odds, in a court of law, he can be assumed to have known what he should have known as a director and to have done what he should have done as a director.



On the same basis the directors of the bank should perhaps have known what the proper status of the land/property/buildings were in order to protect the banks interests (which was their first duty.) If they didn't know they failed and if they did know they failed so one might think that there is a case for bringing charges against the directors of the bank. At the very least in the UK the shareholders would most likely be inclined to remove them from office.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
05/03/2012 13:29

Ismet my point about natural justice is that - is it a fair trial if an institution like a bank can use its power and influence to override the need for them to do what is fair...

"Whilst the term natural justice is often retained as a general concept, it has largely been replaced and extended by the more general 'duty to act fairly'".

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
05/03/2012 14:23

Winnie, msg. 73,

I wrote a long reply but internet gone and so did my reply. Here I go again but much shorter this time. Our police is not trained to deal with complicated frauds. They are only after the petty ones like selling the same air-conditioner to three different advocates (this is a true story). Anyt. hing else, they tell people thgat it is a civil case and they should go and see an advocate. Recently 30-50 young policemen were sent to Turkey for training on fraud and how to investigate it. I think we will see the results after a couple of years.

As for the legal system, I can say with a clear conscience that the bank in question did not influence their decisions. Almost all our judges are hard working and not biased and they are overworked which is a very bad thing. Unfortunately most of the new judges do not know English sufficiently to do the necessary research although preference is given to those who studied in UK when appointing new judges. Now, even some members of the High Court lack in this respect.

Unfortunately they too often apply the law to the letter without looking at the bigger picture and also we have a government who will not act quickly to any requests fromn the High Court. The high interest rates is a good example. the High Court had cancelled the top limit on accrued interest for some technicality and it took years for the government to redress the situation.

ismet

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
05/03/2012 14:28

Groucho,

If we only had some sort of Lord Denning here in Cyprus, we would do the same.

ismet

astro941


Joined: 22/05/2011
Posts: 193

Message Posted:
05/03/2012 15:05

To me what is happening to Pauline Read is clearly intimidation. There must be a reason and a thinking force behind this intimidation.



What is the reason?



Who (the person (s) is/are directing this force?

astro941


Joined: 22/05/2011
Posts: 193

Message Posted:
05/03/2012 18:34

Elko, Lords Denning the one time Chief Justice and Lord Cheshire are my role models.



I wonder what their comments would be regarding both the Law and raising monies for charity here.



I am sure that both men would also take direct action to improve the situation.



No apology for mixing two situation but they both have a common denominator.

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
05/03/2012 21:19

Did she get her laptop back yet ?

Cypriot4x4


Joined: 16/07/2011
Posts: 14

Message Posted:
05/03/2012 21:55

" d) constructive notice of such sales were not taken into account etc. etc.

ismet"



I dont know if you know about these and I think I should add :



e) when akfinans sued kulaksız and registered owner of property which is in karsiyaka, the judgement was by consent !!! at the court. I am not sure but as I remember lawyer of kulaksız and registered owner were same !!!



f) have you ever think about conflict insterest of lawyers ? who didnt warn purchasers if there was a mortgage on said property prior signing contract of sale? who didnt advise client to register contract of sale at the land registry office to prevent any future mortgage or double sale ?



Most of the purchasers paid lawyer fee and believe that lawyer will protect his/her rights with best possible contract!!!



dig conflict of interest of lawyers a bit !!! you will be suprised.

pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
06/03/2012 06:44

That one lawyer acting for three purchasers was allegedly related to the bank is an allegation already made I believe from what I read in the past Cypriot 4 x 4. All these alleged and alleegedly's, clearly I am not legally trained.

astro941


Joined: 22/05/2011
Posts: 193

Message Posted:
06/03/2012 07:33

A lawyer is a gentleman who rescues your estate from your enemies and keeps it for himself. - Lord Brougham

pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
06/03/2012 10:50

Some might say that a gentleman is someone who would never consider being a lawyer, some might say that but of course I never would.

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
06/03/2012 14:41

Polly,

Now you know why I became an Engineer and not a lawyer

ismet

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
06/03/2012 15:42

Astro: message 78.



Ipek Ozerim has stated that Embargoed proposed bringing over a UK, TC lawyer of senior standing to head a 3 judge independent panel to review some of the ongoing property cases. Other UK/TC lawyers also offered to help with root & branch reform of the relevant TRNC laws.



Both were told their help was not needed!!!!

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
06/03/2012 17:01

I have outlined the problems here and sent a copy of DVD to each MP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yjzJHVoi6E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vH-RtpNs00w

Response: A big NAUGHT.

ismet

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
06/03/2012 18:06

elko2 - we all know the reason for the 'big Naught', don't we!



It doesn't take a Philadelphia lawyer to work out the reticence in proffering a reply!



Nothing to do with a pre-planned, 'hidden agenda', of course!

tomsteel


Joined: 22/06/2009
Posts: 482

Message Posted:
06/03/2012 18:27

Elko, could I forward the links to the Turkish Ambassador for him to report to the Turkish Government? It would be an utter waste of time involving the British High Commissioner, although the other expat nationals here may wish to copy the links to their respective governmental representatives.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
06/03/2012 18:38

Can we have a translation of what is being said please?



Thank you. I know it's time consuming for someone to do this but it would be helpful and interesting.

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
06/03/2012 19:39

I did give a copy of the DVD to the Turkish embassy in Nicosia and I do know that it was well received. However a week later the ambassador was changed due to some political developments and the impetus was lost. These videos are in the public domain, so anyone can use them as they wish.

I did make a summary of it at the time but who knows where it is. Perhaps Polly can help here.

ismet

tomsteel


Joined: 22/06/2009
Posts: 482

Message Posted:
06/03/2012 20:18

Good man elko 2. I'll ponder next where they should be posted to so we can maximise their coverage/effect. Top man!!

pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
06/03/2012 21:22

I do indeed ismet, ever tne gentleman and diplomat.

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
07/03/2012 00:42

Well a good try

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
07/03/2012 08:25

If only the Turkish government would realise the reputation it is earning - simply by association with TRNC!



What is needed is for a fully briefed envoy, in the name of Stephen Sackur [Hardtalk], to ram it all home to Mr. Erdogan!