Lawyer fined by cyprus bar over property

wanderer


Joined: 05/02/2009
Posts: 1653

Message Posted:
11/03/2012 20:02

THE Cyprus Bar Association (CBA) has this week fined Paphos lawyer Emily Lemoniati €1,000 for misconduct after she failed to register her clients’ 2005 property sales agreement, then waited three years to amend, sign and file a new contract without her clients’ instructions.

Lemoniati’s clients, Scottish expats Andrew and Patricia McClay, complained to police in 2009 but it has taken the CBA’s disciplinary board until now to reach a verdict on the two charges of “showing conduct contrary to the advocates’ profession”.

The first, according to board president and Attorney-general Petros Clerides, was for failing to register the sale agreement for the McClays’ home, dated 25 October 2005.

The second was issued because, on or around 21 October 2008, Lemoniati used a power of attorney given by the McClays without their instruction, to issue a sales agreement of which they were not aware.

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/cyprus/bar-association-fines-lawyer-misconduct/20120311

birdman



Joined: 20/09/2010
Posts: 690

Message Posted:
11/03/2012 22:54

Can you see that happening in the TRNC?



Wouldn't that be wonderful?



Gerry

britvic



Joined: 05/09/2008
Posts: 3039

Message Posted:
11/03/2012 22:58

Gerry if that was to happen in the TRNC, there would be no Advocates left!

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
11/03/2012 23:01

Ey up you hows dodger,



Paul.

britvic



Joined: 05/09/2008
Posts: 3039

Message Posted:
11/03/2012 23:03

Dodger is fine and living in my basement thanks for asking...........................

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
11/03/2012 23:08

Vicki,



Will you mail me please,



Paul.

britvic



Joined: 05/09/2008
Posts: 3039

Message Posted:
11/03/2012 23:15

Mailed Paul.

britvic



Joined: 05/09/2008
Posts: 3039

Message Posted:
11/03/2012 23:16

Sorry for going off topic folks..............................................It was Newlads fault!

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
11/03/2012 23:54

Token gesture. Such a small fine for such proven malpractice and mismanagement. She should have been struck off so that other Advocates got the message that unacceptable behaviour will not be tolerated. Her attitude and lack of professionalism and response to the charges alone are reason enough for this person to lose their license to practice.



It will be interesting to see what happens when she appeals.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
12/03/2012 08:02

The old saying used to be: 'Never take on a Paphos lawyer/advocate to do any business in Paphos, because they all p1ss in each others' pockets!'



That couldn't possibly true of TRNC - could it?

birdman



Joined: 20/09/2010
Posts: 690

Message Posted:
12/03/2012 08:31

Similarly here, it is advised NEVER to use a Girne advocate, as they too are very close behind each other,( a polite wqay of saying they are up each others arses!)



Gerry

deputydawg


Joined: 30/03/2010
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
12/03/2012 14:52

Some American once said something along the lines of "there are only two certainties in life, death, and taxes. The TRNC precedent is that the only certainty if you shake hands with an advocate is that you will end up skint.

suehowlittle


Joined: 31/10/2010
Posts: 1202

Message Posted:
12/03/2012 19:41

Just worked out how you know your lawyer is lying to you ........his mouth is moving!

Cypriot4x4


Joined: 16/07/2011
Posts: 14

Message Posted:
12/03/2012 22:20

It is better to avoid generalizations about TRNC lawyers...



I mentioned conflict interest gossips of some lawyers before but sometimes I think that it is not only the lawyer's fault.



It is also client's fault WHO chose a lawyer advised by estate agent !!!

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
12/03/2012 22:40

Is it the client's fault? Although I would agree it is definitely not recommended to use the Advocate recommended by the Estate Agent or Developer, in most countries where lawyers and Advocates have a duty of care and are subject to license to practice and are expected to display professionalism, the Advocate would be duty bound to declare his/her interests and to always act in the interest of his/her clients. Failure to do so could result in disciplinary action.



In most countries to accept a client but then work towards the interests of the other person would be severely frowned upon and unacceptable. Similarly lots of countries allow the Advocate to act for both seller and buyer but this is within strict guidelines so that the requirements of both parties are met.



It appears Advocates in the TRNC find it difficult to act in the interests of their clients despite being paid to do so.

deputydawg


Joined: 30/03/2010
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
12/03/2012 23:08

Declaring a conflict of interest does not always mean that integrity is assured. There is the story of the client who was told by her lawyer that he could not act for her as he already acted for the party she wished to sue. He gave her a letter of introduction, in a sealed envelope, addressed to another lawyer he recommended. Curiosity got the better of her so she steamed open the envelope to the letter. It included the sentence "I will pluck my goose and you can fleece the lamb I am introducing you to".

steppewolf


Joined: 12/09/2010
Posts: 4

Message Posted:
15/03/2012 13:08

Bradus I strongly disagree about your thoughts. There are many good, reliable and trustworthy lawyers in TRNC but the problem I generally encounter is that most people opt for the cheapest ones in order to save some extra money and got robbed in the end. You name a bad lawyer and I name at least 10 people who had gone for the cheapest one willingly or none instead and end up paying some hundred thousand pounds and got simply nothing in return.

It is the same, on everywhere in the world. If you are entering into some kind of transaction which includes payment of any kind you double check, evern triple check the matter and then go forward.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
15/03/2012 13:24

Message 17



Are you really saying that if people chose a "cheap" advocate they deserve to be ripped off?

They are supposed to be a highly qualified professional, bound by a code of conduct. The price quoted for the conveyancing is usually set by the Advocate so are you suggesting that they work from a principle of I only quoted a small fee so this gives me the right to do a poor job and put the buyer at risk?



Advocates, even the so called highly recommended ones, often run into problems because the laws of the TRNC fail to protect buyers. This is the real problem. What exactly can the so called expensive advocates do differently to the cheaper advocates when memorandums are put on properties other than abide by the law of the land? Can the expensive ones make the builder complete the work whereas the cheaper ones cannot?

Can they get their cases to court quicker?



No of course not because they are all working within the many unjust constraints of the TRNC

andrew4232



Joined: 04/07/2009
Posts: 1543

Message Posted:
15/03/2012 13:25

there are more bent lawyers here than you could wave a stick at

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
15/03/2012 13:33

In support of my statement I think you should look at the many large housing developments that have run into problems and where a selection of advocates have represented their clients often with the outcome being the same.



There are without doubt some advocates that should be avoided at all costs. These are the ones often recommended by Estate Agent and Developer and that time and time again have been associated with problematic sites. However if you care to look at their fees, they are by no means the cheapest.



Is is not about time people looked at the real problem and stopped making excuses for the illegality, open corruption and fraud? In the end those making the excuses allow the system to continue working in the same vein. Perhaps if people looked at the very real loopholes in the current system and supported change, the TRNC might have a more buoyant property market. It would certainly be less stressful for those buying there.

steppewolf


Joined: 12/09/2010
Posts: 4

Message Posted:
15/03/2012 14:48

message 18



I am not saying that. What I am saying is if someone, maybe you, jump into a contract of only 2 pages in total, without ever seeing the plans, making the additional deals such as swimming pools etc strictly verbally there is noone to blame but that person. By consulting ANOTHER lawyer (or at least one, because most of the people close the agreement with certifying officers or estate agencies), getting a second and comprehensive thought will save you, your hard earned monies.

Laws in TRNC, just like the similar ones in other countries do cover until a certain point. Consulting a lawyer will set these boundaries better. If one puts herself/himself into some sticky stuff and passes the point of safe return none of the existing laws or legal systems may recover the damages.

By the way, there are some lawyers who does not charge excessively or simply nothing as well.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
15/03/2012 17:58

Steppewolf, your profile identifies you as a lawyer in Nicosia. I find this worrying. If I am employing a lawyer, I expect him to deal with my conveyancing efficiently. What else am I employing him for? If he delivers to me a contract of 2 pages long that fails to do the job I am paying him to do, then why oh why is he in business when he is so obviously incompetent? It is an absolute disgrace that you are suggesting that people need not only to vet their own contracts but then take to to another advocate to confirm the first advocate has fulfilled his role effectively. A good advocate by the way would not allow their clients to be put into "sticky stuff"



Most people buying in the TRNC use advocates. So why in your opinion are there so many victims of property scams? To blame the victims is ridiculous when they have employed an advocate. I would suggest that the real cause is the general incompetence/dishonesty and lack of robust laws that protect buyers.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
15/03/2012 18:01

As an Advocate how do you guarantee that all your clients get PTP, completed properties, are not blackmailed for more money and receive unencumbered properties and their deeds?

steppewolf


Joined: 12/09/2010
Posts: 4

Message Posted:
22/03/2012 16:56

Bradus,



first of all, your lawyer does not deliver a 2 page contract, the cheap and tricky estate agency (not saying all agencies are but there are many) puts you into it. Maybe, just maybe you are in the tiny proportion Who got a second thought from ANOTHER lawyer but most do not. I can show you more than a hundred (just drop by) for whom I literally dug my way out in order to get title deed. Perhaps you are so frustrated that you cannot understand what I say. I just say one has to dig deep in order to clarify everything in the matter. When a person, a foreigner comes to trnc and wants to purchase property it is fair and convincing enough for most if there is a lawyer involved within the process, regardless of which side the lawyer stands. This was what happened to most. Also, I am not saying that there are crook lawyers who earn their living from these scams but not all are same.

As said before, I have guaranteed all my clients' expediences.

pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
22/03/2012 17:32

steppewolf Too many people found out how badly their interests had been served when registering contracts in early 2008 as per the Estate Agents Law. Yes I am sure there are good Advocates, you yourself sound ethical but there are too many that are not and I am afraid, no one remembers good service as well as they remember bad. Unfair I know, but true nontheless.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
22/03/2012 18:17

First of all, very few buy property in the TRNC without engaging a solicitor. Secondly looking at the amount of buyers that have ended up with mortgages, memorandums, unfinished builds, blackmailed to pay more money or the builder will not exchange deeds, even when you have paid HIS taxes, I would suggest there is something very wrong with the legal system and the competency of many Advocates. I am not frustrated I deal in fact and realities and it is a fact that if the builder runs into debt you can end up paying these debts despite the fact you have paid in full for your house. Ask Greatstones, Boyuts, Santa Fe, Armacon or Seaterra Reserve buyers (I could go on but is there sufficient listed to prove my point?)

I had an excellent and honest builder and it is more to his knowledge and integrity that I did not run into problems than my Advocate.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
22/03/2012 18:30

Everyone knows that Advocate do not have a duty of care. The fact that you state that:



"I can show you more than a hundred (just drop by) for whom I literally dug my way out in order to get title deed"



shows that a simple exchange of deeds is problematic for many. You may have integrity but unfortunately not all TRNC Advocates do. Nepotism and Cronyism are common and often it's difficult to confirm if your Advocate is acting in your interest or the builders!



There may be a professional body that regulates Advocates but how many have lost their license to practice or been subjected to disciplinary action? Sorry to sound harsh but you need only to read the experiences of many on the HPBG to see that there is a problem due to the ineffective laws within the TRNC. Until the system changes to a no deeds, no money approach and people are not allowed to enter a contract without PTP approval there will always be loopholes that leave buyers at risk.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
22/03/2012 18:47

The Government is aware of this but has done little to change the laws to provide this necessary protection.

Perhaps a little pressure from Advocates might help?



Sadly there is a complete loss of faith in the Cypriot construction and judiciary, that is having a very negative effect on the economy. Not many would risk buying off plan anymore. Unless this is addressed the situation will only get worse.



Denying that there is a problem and supporting a system which can only be described as reactionary rather than being proactive is your perogative. However it will not encourage a flourishing property market, tourist industry and all those knock on businesses like furniture, property maintenance etc.



It is a choice the TRNC Government have made.

Mindy



Joined: 27/10/2008
Posts: 1210

Message Posted:
22/03/2012 20:41

Bradus

Well said.

Agree 100% with your viewsm