british MP's to clean up desecrated churchs

clipper50


Joined: 22/06/2011
Posts: 69

Message Posted:
23/03/2012 19:06

interesting news story in Famagusta Gazette



see http://www.famagusta-gazette.com/british-mps-clean-desecrated-churches-in-cyprus-p14847-69.htm

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
23/03/2012 19:59

☛ msg ①, clipper50: Very interesting indeed! Thanks for uploading the link.

theparson


Joined: 28/05/2011
Posts: 129

Message Posted:
23/03/2012 20:52

Good little number for the MPs...love to see their expenses claim for this little jolly.

cavalryman


Joined: 08/11/2010
Posts: 314

Message Posted:
23/03/2012 21:08

M ps work? is that an oxymoron

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
23/03/2012 21:15

They can come round to my house and give it a good spring-clean, when they're done.

newscoop


Joined: 23/12/2007
Posts: 2197

Message Posted:
23/03/2012 22:31

Well in fairness they've got naff all to do at home what with the EUSSR running the show.

Panchocat


Joined: 29/11/2009
Posts: 1333

Message Posted:
23/03/2012 22:33

Any work being done on desecrated mosques in the South?

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
23/03/2012 22:55

The MP's need to clean up their own act before trying to clean up others.

Marion


Joined: 06/03/2011
Posts: 1816

Message Posted:
23/03/2012 23:45

There is deep concern on many levels over this move. It places our government in a very difficult position. they can't refuse, and yet, just what does David Burrowes & co think they can actually DO. also, there appears to be no reciprocal offer for mosques to be inspected. There are places where moseques have been lovingly restored and used as in Dahli, but others were completely razed as in Kofinou. But no one is talking about those!

So what do people think? should the team headed by David Burrowes be allowed over and if so, why and if not why not, and what should the balance be.

I think this is what the Aussies owuld call a 'curly one'

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
23/03/2012 23:52

If British MPs have the urge to clean something up, perhaps they could be persuaded to go back and clean up a few banks and the finance industry in the UK first.

nurseawful



Joined: 06/02/2009
Posts: 5934

Message Posted:
24/03/2012 07:46

Maybe they could clean up the cemetery in Ilgaz, that I didn't know was there until this week as it is so overgrown with weeds.



Chris

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
24/03/2012 08:38

☛ msg ⑨, Marion: (...) So what do people think? should the team headed by David Burrowes be allowed over and if so, why and if not why not, and what should the balance be. (...)



▶ Anyone who feels the urge to do some work in or at former (abandoned) religious buildings in TRNC should contact the TRNC government, provide this government with a plan and wait for permission. Such work should be supervised by one of the TRNC ministeries (in many cases the Department of Antiquities). This goes for anyone, even British MP's. If this rule is broken from the start the whole act should be considered to be a provocation - hence not allowed.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
24/03/2012 09:21

[ msg 12 continued ]



Much needed research and restoration work on ancient and medieval monuments in TRNC is often blocked by and with threats from the government of RoC. Interested scientists in such work are threatened with a boycot so they cannot work in Southern Cyprus anymore. Available international money only finds its way (sorry, it's better not to give details) to TRNC via work arounds.

The concerned British MP's should listen less to their Greek speaking Cypriot constituents in the UK - they should read more about facts.

brother



Joined: 29/01/2010
Posts: 446

Message Posted:
24/03/2012 09:48

Yes, I have come across some vandalised Christian places of worship in the North and as I respect the right of others to have faith in whatever they believe in I felt it was a sad thing to see. Some of these places link the island back to a biblical time and regardless of the hurt the TCs feel, the religious context of these places is undeniable.

However it is also unjust that there has been no mention of any restoration or care of Islamic places of worship. This plan by the British MPs does not help the situation at all as it only shows some sort of higher significance attached to the Christian holy places.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
24/03/2012 10:31

@ msg 14, Brother: (...) Yes, I have come across some vandalised Christian places of worship in the North (...)

▶ I agree with your message but unfortunately it's not just "some vandalised Christian places etc". And if they are not vandalised they ar often neglected.

But.

I know and photographed "places of (former) Christian worship" where the text and graphical graffiti* on (newly whitewashed) walls is in the English, Turkish OR Greek language. So before we point at anyone in particular...



* It is at least debatable whether graffiti is always an act of vandals. The graffiti by sailors in some medieval churches in for instance Famagusta tells us a whole story of daily life centuries ago! If scientists in the year 2500 find the graffiti from 2012 on the walls of Greek Orthodox churches and monasteries in TRNC what will they understand about the animosity between the (Cypriot) Turks and the Greek speaking Cypriots..?!

Dillon


Joined: 05/02/2012
Posts: 134

Message Posted:
24/03/2012 10:36

http://www.davidburrowes.com/appgs MP for Enfield/Southgate



All-Party Parliamentary Groups are unofficial groups of MPs, usually with a common interest in a particular subject or Country. They act as pressure groups to promote a particular cause and help keep the Government informed on particular issues. David Burrowes is a member of the following APPGs:



All-Party Parliamentary Group on Democracy in Burma

British-Cyprus All-Party Parliamentary Group (Chair)

All-Party Parliamentary Group on Asthma

All-Party Parliamentary Child and Youth Crime Group (Vice-Chair)

All-Party Parliamentary Group on Childcare

Christians in Parliament All-Party Parliamentary Group

All-Party Parliamentary Group on Complex Needs and Dual Diagnosis (Chair)

All-Party Parliamentary Group for Justice for Equitable Life Policy Holders

All-Party Parliamentary Group on Fatherhood

All-Party Parliamentary Group on the Holy See…

Dillon


Joined: 05/02/2012
Posts: 134

Message Posted:
24/03/2012 10:36

… All-Party Parliamentary Group on Human Trafficking

All-Party Parliamentary Group on Legal Aid

All-Party Parliamentary Group on Poverty

All-Party Parliamentary Group on Prison Health

All-Party Parliamentary Pro-Life Group

All-Party Parliamentary Group on Sickle Cell and Thalassaemia

All-Party Parliamentary Group on Stem Cell Transplantation (Vice-Chair)

All-Party Parliamentary Group for Sustainable Relationships (Secretary)

All-Party Parliamentary Group for Voice UK

All-Party Parliamentary Group on Women in the Penal System

All-Party Parliamentary Group on Youth Affairs



So in essence, the group intending to visit the TRNC and clean up a few churches will not be here on official Government business, they’re just part time missionaries? And I am surprised he has any time left on his calendar for his day job with all of the above and a wife and six children to boot! WOW

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
24/03/2012 10:38

@ msg 17: Jeez! And I thought I have a busy life!

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
24/03/2012 11:34

[ msg 15, addition ]



On the site of a recently restored Greek Orthodox monastery in TRNC. No comment necessary.

▶ [ http://www.allcrusades.com/BB_pics/IMG_0718_net.jpg ].



And more in detail - who wouldn't despair?

▶ [ http://www.allcrusades.com/BB_pics/IMG_0718_cut_net.png ].

brother



Joined: 29/01/2010
Posts: 446

Message Posted:
24/03/2012 14:10

Dutch.msg 16. Sailors leaving messages on walls is/ was still graffiti I suppose. The examples you provide are vandalistic and show the communication methods of the cowardly extremists. Alas they will always be there in society. Getting back to the main thrust of the topic, Im not convinced that anything meaningful will be achieved by this MP group within the time they are allowing across the number of places they intend to tidy up.



It is a shame that when people find an old neglected religious place they don't stop and reflect on the history and function of such places. For the uneducated they become a target of their wish for vengeance and for those with a higher insight they become a tool for continuing propaganda.

Marion


Joined: 06/03/2011
Posts: 1816

Message Posted:
24/03/2012 15:23

Thanks Hans for the comments. I agree with you all, and the truth is that both sides have made mistakes in the care of buildings - neglect and demolition - but I think the most difficult thing is that , as you correctly say, TRNC must give permission, but how can they say 'no' without repercussions of an unwanted kind. They have already banned the Archbishop from the south from coming cos he went and conducted a service without permission.



If only a party from here wanted to go south at the same time to do a bit of a clear up. some of the mosques are fine and functioning, while others are bit a pile of rubble. It is the politics of it all that bothers me. The constant idea that we are barbarians and must be educated etc, whilst the south is squeaky clean and did no wrong.

Geejay


Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 475

Message Posted:
24/03/2012 16:06

I have previously communicated with David Burrowes, Chairman of the British All Party Parliamentary Group on Cyprus, regarding his views. He usually only visits the south, and those are probably funded by the ROC... A jolly !



Although he has made some contact with politicians in the north, these have only been with those of 2 minor parties fielding 2 MP's out of the 50. In spite of my suggestion that he speak to the TC major parties, Ministers and the British Residents Society in order to obtain a balance, he has signally failed to do so.



He seems to have a permanent and fixed view of Cyprus and only considers views propagated in the ROC. usually at the expense of North Cyprus.

Geejay


Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 475

Message Posted:
24/03/2012 16:17

Here is an excerpt of a speech he made which can hardly be considered balanced or impartial. In fact full of deliberate misinformation.



"Last weekend I was in Cyprus (and yes my expenses were paid by my hosts) to attend events to continue to protest about the Turkish occupation of North Cyprus in particular the beautiful town of Morphu, twinned with my home Borough of Barnet.



...... The occupied north meanwhile continues to exist in a form of Asiatic poverty with an army of occupation of about 40,000 troops.

Most of the native Cypriots (both Greek and Turkish) have long since given up and abandoned the place to settlers flown in from Anatolia.



The desecration of Orthodox churches and the wholesale stripping and sale abroad of religious icons and archaeological treasures has to be seen to be believed and the ethnic cleansing carried out in the north of this magnificent island is as bad as anything experienced in the former Yugoslavia."

Geejay


Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 475

Message Posted:
24/03/2012 16:26

I forgot to mention that his article comes from the on-line Turk & Turkish Cypriot 'hate machine' PSEKA - International Coordinating Committee "Justice For Cyprus". It's malignant views which he obviously shares !

Marion


Joined: 06/03/2011
Posts: 1816

Message Posted:
24/03/2012 16:35

Yes, Geejay, it is for all the reasons above that I am fearful of what is really intended here as a move towards 'solution'.



How naive can I be?

Geejay


Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 475

Message Posted:
24/03/2012 17:43

Yes Marion this is indeed a difficult one for the TRNC government. Even knowing how bigoted and racist this group's leader is they should non the less accept his right to visit the north.



However, maybe they should insist that he seeks official permission to act in any way other than recreational, especially if the area to be visited is on interdicted land. He would then have to decide whether or not to do that. He may well then decide that would amount to recognition of the TRNC and refuse. If he continued, that would put him in the position of a deliberate transgression of local laws for which he could be deported.



Even other "unrecognised" political entities such as Taiwan and the Palestinian territories have local laws which must be respected and obeyed !

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
24/03/2012 18:25

@ messages by Geejay: Good postings, eye openers for foreigners who do not know the background of this British MP and maybe an eye opener for some British people also. Well done.

So.

Let the man and his party in. Arrest him when he tries to run his despicable show. Throw him out. The world doesn't like the locals and us here anyway. What can we loose?

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
24/03/2012 19:16

There is, or was until fairly recently, an All Party Group of "Friends of the TRNC" I dont recall them going to the South to clean up Mosques.



I agree with DC - there is neglect of religious buildings (though there are some good examples of presrvation) due to lack of resources but little malicious vandalism. I have seen graffiti of the"Kilroy wwas here" and "A loves B" variety - silly and bad for old buildings but not demonstrations of religious or racial hatred.



But how sad, another demonstration of "perfidious Albion" just when we dont need it.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
24/03/2012 19:49

Vandalism in religious (Greek Orthodox) buildings? It happens. Here's another example. A nice wooden door was fitted in the south wall of the Panayia Absinthiotissa (Apsidhiotissa) monastery. The door didn't last long. Vandals (nationality?) ruined the door and the door posts.

▶ [ http://www.allcrusades.com/BB_pics/IMG_1590_net.jpg ].

Furthermore I could show you here how at night this GO monastery is used by sheep - their droppings are present 2 cm thick. Absolutely not necessary and (although I despise any religion) only oil on the fire for the Greek speaking Cypriots.

cavalryman


Joined: 08/11/2010
Posts: 314

Message Posted:
24/03/2012 21:37

Be nice if the date and time of the clean up a photo of an mp with his sleeves rolled up must be woth a fortune.Also perhaps he could have a chat with us expats for our views!!!!