Will Turkey withdraw

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
15/01/2009 21:18

http://www.famagusta-gazette.com/link.asp?twindow=Default&smenu=123&sdetail=7283&mad=No&wpage=&skeyword=&sidate=



Is it now time for turkey to make a move to kick start the talks,

Paul.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
15/01/2009 21:23

Post deleted - irrelevant to original post - ltd

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
15/01/2009 21:30

Hi Paul what do you think troops out this side tanks in the other. One Clinton to sort out Ireland the other to sort out Cyprus. We will wait and see. Take care xxxx

juliet


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 612

Message Posted:
15/01/2009 21:40

i somehow don`t think 3 new tanks on the south of the island will make make any difference to what is already available on the north side!



Turkey should start to withdraw it`s troops.............. if the island is to be reunified & as forMr clinton..................................! most americans have never heard of Cyprus! except the ones who helped make a mess in the first place......

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
15/01/2009 21:43

Hi Juliet I didnt mean Mr C I meant Mrs C as seemingly Cyprus is on her agenda as secretary of state do you see it reuniting.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
15/01/2009 21:43

Moderator,



Message 2. You have made your point!



What rule, pray, did I breach this time?



wyn





Direct copy from Forum Rules - "6. Keep The Focus

Posts outside the scope of the question asked in the initial (first) post may be deleted without notice." - ltd

juliet


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 612

Message Posted:
15/01/2009 21:51

Hi lilli



i am sure of reunification, it won`t be a perfect solution for a lot of people on both sides!! but it`s time to move forward for all Cypriots.

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
15/01/2009 21:54

hi julie i agree for the future generation. I was born in ireland and we had borders i really dont want borders for any children. lets just hope and pray a solution can be found xxx

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
15/01/2009 22:10

Msg6 LTD,



Oh for heavens sake!



As moderators you allow personal and grossly offensive insults. See the postings from DEECYPRUS4. Get a balance if you are going to moderate, moderate posters, moderate postings!



Just my view, that is all,



wyn

Winter



Joined: 16/09/2007
Posts: 120

Message Posted:
15/01/2009 22:13

Wyn



At least you didn't get detention - lol



Winter

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
15/01/2009 22:32

Paul,

I think some troops should withdraw.They are certainly no longer necessary to the North to maintain safety!

It would show the world that the Turkish government is looking towards a future settlement and as you suggest kick start the talks and promote a more optimistic future for the island.



Who but the world media would notice an initial reduction of 5000?

Yvonne



Joined: 16/05/2008
Posts: 273

Message Posted:
15/01/2009 22:37

A friend of mine had to do his mandatory army service for 12 months. He finished in August last year. What a waste of money and time! He didn't want to do it, had to leave his job in tourism to do his army service, and now, that he has completed his service, has no job!

It's ridiculous!

Yvonne



Joined: 16/05/2008
Posts: 273

Message Posted:
15/01/2009 22:39

And what about Scotland... or Wales for that matter?!

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
15/01/2009 22:59

Bradus,



Chairman Mao said" Power is in the barrel of a gun"



Now no one is proposing violence, but I respectfully suggest that Turkey will not move one



soldier out of Cyprus, until they have got EXACTLY what they want for the Turkish Cypriots.



The GCS have international support(at present) vetos and etc, but TURKEY have 40000



armed troops, and they ain't in no rush to go home.



My view....A bizonal agreement under an umbrella of a mixed democratically appointed.



government. Exchange land as a basis for a blanket property settlement, supported by



compensation at 1974 values.



Phased withdrawl of troops to support the above.



Just my simple views, thats all,



Take care you, and he who shall be obeyed!



wyn

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
15/01/2009 23:01

paul



a direct answer to your question .......no,



turkey will withdraw some troops and thats as far as it goes,as to complete withdrawal it won,t happen.



musin

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
15/01/2009 23:03

Winter,



I really wouldn't mind, if I had to have my bottom smacked. (I have seen her profile) but



I thought freedom of speech was a basic human right. Perhaps I will be held back after class!!!!



wyn

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
15/01/2009 23:25

wyn



intresting you mention 74 valuations ,because some of the land in and around bahceli ,esentepe you couldn,t even give away and now that there is an infrastructure albeit still some way to go the greeks say its worth millions.



musin

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
15/01/2009 23:35

Agree, withdraw a few thousand troops, gain political momentum worldwide and provide positive stance towards unification talks.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
16/01/2009 00:23

WYN said,

The GCS have international support(at present) vetos and etc, but TURKEY have 40000 armed troops, and they ain't in no rush to go home"



It is the Turks that need this international support. About time it was taken from the GC's. What better way than to be seen doing something constructive like reducing the number of troops to show the world that they are promoting a settlement and like the Annan plan they are the ones interested in peace!



Milatary might is not really having any affect. They need to play the game with the big boys. Propaganda has been a more effective weapon in the south than guns. Time to change tactics.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
16/01/2009 10:32

Bradus re 19



"Military might not having any affect" .. Well it saw to 37% of the island being off limits to nearly 80% of the population .. I think the GCs learnt that they were never going to win a military war a long time ago.



The GCs have a Veto at the EU, but if they used it they would ensure that the Veto rule would be changed to maj. They know it would be foolish to use it... and they'd only get a chance to do it once.



The more importsnt Veto is that of China and Russia @ UN



This is, and was, all about retaining Cyprus as an "Aircraft carrier" . The US preferred to be pals with TR and they are a far bigger "player".. This is the only reason the "intervention" / invasion of Cyprus was allowed.. The British COULD have stopped it.. the Americans told them to allow the troop ships "safe passage".



All that mattered was retaining the Sovereign bases on Cyprus and friendship with a Muslim Country that bought a lot of arms and offered bases close to the Soviet Union.

Cypfan


Joined: 10/10/2008
Posts: 104

Message Posted:
16/01/2009 11:58

wynyardman:



"Turkey will not move one soldier out of Cyprus, until they have got EXACTLY what they want for the Turkish Cypriots."



So you're under the impression the Turkish army is in Cyprus to help the Turkish Cypriots?

breezyboy


Joined: 14/05/2007
Posts: 1179

Message Posted:
16/01/2009 12:20

The Turkish army will not move one catapult off the island until they achieve their objetives WITHOUT ANY loss of face or future potential loss of face.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
16/01/2009 12:39

Hi Breezyboy re 22



Turkish Generals will say they need Cyprus to protect the "soft underbelly of Turkey" ;)



protect from WHO..?

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
16/01/2009 12:58

A "Greek Cypriot" Cyprus could turn into a "Greek" Cyprus and Turkey would end up with a Greek flank in the South as well as the West. A Turkish Cypriot Northern Cyprus is their cordon sanitaire.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
16/01/2009 13:11

"TRNC" Vaughan re 23



your above post is plain silly.. Cyprus is part of the EU now.. it has got something FAR better than Enosis with Greece - it has a service industry infrastructure and has seen first hand repeated reminders of what happens just across the water in Lebanon - if they even need a reminder.



Sure, you'll find a GC who might *talk* about "driving the Turks back into the sea", but the numbers/ military might lesson was learnt a LONG time ago..



You need to talk to a few wise older TCs.. they know the TR Military doesn't want to go, and the interests of TCs don't figure highest in their reasoning.



I appreciate the uniqueness of TR, but it is now time that deep state was deep sixed .



Getting TR in the EU would really help, but Cyprus is a HUGE stumbling block of TR creation.. they must climb down as they signed agreements and aren't fulfilling them.. giving France ,etc the perfect excuse..



No one needs to worry about GCs vetoing..

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
16/01/2009 14:40

Hi mmmmmmmmmmmm,



My comment was more to suggest what might be the thinking behind some of the TR generals attitude. Tension still exists between GR and TR and the TR generals may think that a "Greek" Cyprus (as unlikely as you/we might think that to be) is a step too far.

bettybill


Joined: 19/11/2008
Posts: 2

Message Posted:
16/01/2009 16:02

the turkish army did not come here to save the tcs they came because the gcs were winning and no way would turkey allow greeks to dominate coast from anamor to iskenderun and the same holds good today eu or no eu

Biker



Joined: 11/01/2008
Posts: 396

Message Posted:
16/01/2009 18:28

mmmmm



msg 25. Correction



Greek South Cyprus is in EU.

Turkish North Cyprus is not in EU.

(At least not until there is a solution, if ever there will be one)



As the demands of both sides are still wide apart.

rocking


Joined: 05/11/2008
Posts: 421

Message Posted:
16/01/2009 19:04

A poll on the South and the North seems to say that neither side wishes or could live side by side. I sincerely hope that not one Turkish Soldier is removed from this side of the Island until the Turkish Cypriots and mainlane has exactly what it wants. We have to have the a guarantee Turkey so that what happened in 1953, 1959, 1960, 1963 etc. etc. will never happen again. The last time any of the 3 powers could come in. I remember Ecevit leaving No. 10 saying that UK had refused to help and looking at the early morning news next day to see those wonderful Turkish soldiers coming down from the skies. No sure, but I think the EU is now sorry it took one part of the Island in, anyway, wasn't it illegal when looked into - too late.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
16/01/2009 19:53

msg 28 Biker



No I was quite correct, actually.



ALL of Cyprus is in the EU already.. the govt doesn't have effective control over the northern part.. hence the EU acquis coordinaire is suspended north of the green line - which is a UN cease fire line.



Now if you *THINK* I'm wrong I'll can refer you to various EU / UK websites..



As ever, I know I am in the minority here - as you chouse to believe in something that the REAL world cannot accept... even if it wants to...





There is the matter of a UN Security Council Resolution to be got rid of..



I'm sorry, but TCs were happy to allow all but 950 TR soldiers go - in 2004 - it was the GCs that said no..



Rocking: re 29



Ecevit left no.10 having asked if he could land TR troops on the SBA to save casulties .. The UK had been told by the US to NOT block the TR armada../



TR tried various legal moves ( including in the UK - to block the accession of Cyprus ( RoC) to the EU.. it most certainly wasn't illegal... unfortu

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
16/01/2009 19:54

unfortunate, may be

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
16/01/2009 19:59

Hi "TRNC"Vaughan



re msg 26



I appreciate you were looking at it through their viewpoint, so SORRY , if I didn't make that clear.. ;)

Biker



Joined: 11/01/2008
Posts: 396

Message Posted:
19/01/2009 14:54

Hi mmmmmm

Msg 30.



"ALL of Cyprus is in the EU already.. the govt doesn't have effective control over the northern part.. hence the EU acquis coordinaire is suspended north of the green line - which is a UN cease fire line. "



I am sure a lot of people are awareof your above quote and that is why North Cyprus is not in EU and the way the talks are going it does not seem it will be in the very near future.

Please do not hold your breath.

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
19/01/2009 15:08

Hi Biker,



mmmmmmm is right. Technically, TRNC is in EU as EU sees TRNC as part of RoC. The "rules" of the EU as regards TRNC are just temporarily suspended.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
19/01/2009 15:21

Dear Biker..



re msg 33... Whether the talks are successful or not .. the quote is how things are outside of TR and "TRNC".. when dealing with Cyprus.



Even if TR was to annex "north Cyprus" it wouldn't change anything.. except for the worse for real TCs.



Now I realise that the people allowed to vote in the "north" are likely to choose a pro "status quo" party to be their spokesmen, but it just means the GCs will still have a legal stick to "bash" them with and keep them "isolated" :(



I'm not holding my breath, I just feel sorry for Cypriots.. every time they have two leaders that could work something out .. one of 'em get's "the boot" !

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
19/01/2009 15:27

But temporary often becomes permanent

ROBnJO


Joined: 30/06/2008
Posts: 1289

Message Posted:
19/01/2009 15:38

Assuming that NC is 'technically' in the EU is purely that! Technical!



It's a 'dinner party' talking point.



When did Greece and the ROC join the EU?

When did Turkey take over the North?



These different threads are becoming mind-numbingly boring, mostly perpetuated by a few who consider themselves to be experts on history, property, or International Law.



These discussions have been going on since 1974.



Unless you actually want to be pro-active and lobby your Government or MEP (if an EU citizen),



get on with life,... you won't change anything by pontificating on here.



Wait to see what happens.





Then discuss REALITY!,.. not hypothetical views.





A very, very, bored ROB

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
19/01/2009 16:37

Dear RobnJo



re msg 37



"Assuming that NC is 'technically' in the EU is purely that! Technical! "



Rob, you make the mistake of confusing surreality with reality.. I say again ALL of Cyprus is in the EU, already.. you refer to "north" Cyprus as if it is some sort of entity that decides it's EU status.



The role of the EU/ or not, in Cyprus is very important to TCs ( receiving aid, etc)



IF you are "bored", then I suggest refraining from reading the thread, or learning something about (say) the workings of the ECHR ! These threads are passionate for a reason.



These discussions were violent and people died for their beliefs.. they are centuries old... if you are buying on disputed land in Cyprus you would be ( being charitable, again ) naive to think it won't have some bearing on your day to day life..

Some of us do a little more than "pontificate" .. you are welcome to hang around and learn ;) !



Greece joined the EU in 1981 and the RoC in May 2004 - shortly after

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
19/01/2009 16:38

cont.. the Annan Plan vote..

karakum5c



Joined: 18/03/2008
Posts: 1021

Message Posted:
19/01/2009 17:06

Maybe the GC & TC governments should ask some of the experts on this forum to help in the current round of talks.



It would certainly speed things up as we have so many talented people who know all the answers

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
19/01/2009 17:12

Dear Karakum5c re msg 40



some have tried and been more successful than others.. I'm NOT referring to myself.. but unless they want to "step up to the mark" .....

ROBnJO


Joined: 30/06/2008
Posts: 1289

Message Posted:
19/01/2009 17:47

karakum5c



These 'talented' posters are also regularly arrogant, superscillious, self opinionated and sarcastic,...











So,... Yes,.... they would make excellent politicians!



Rob

bachelibelly


Joined: 04/09/2008
Posts: 275

Message Posted:
19/01/2009 22:20

mmmmmmm. Why was ROC allowed to join the EU given that the Island is divided,was it based on a GC promise to accept Annan,wouldnt history make the powers that be in the EU wary of taking the word of Liealllthekintimopus,why havent people been dragged screaming and been flogged for allowing this corruption on such a grand scale,.Finally can you name me another country that has visibly taken the p*ss out of the EU like the ROC have?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
19/01/2009 22:51

Hi Bachelibelly re msg 43



"Why was ROC allowed to join the EU given that the Island is divided?"



The RoC applied, and Greece said it would veto the whole EU (15-25)enlargement process if they weren't allowed in !



Having got in - the RoC has not had it all it's own way.. it had to allow EU citizens to cross over - even if they hadn't arrived via LCA / PFO.



It had to allow it's citizens to use Tymbou Ercan to fly to Turkey.



I THINK you'll find that Poland and Bulgaria ( for example) have also given the EU their fair share of headaches - re not following the rules.. the RoC have insisted on following the UN Sec Res ruling re "TRNC" to the letter, and TR signed up to the Customs Chapter - then made "conditions".



You are asking the wrong guy re RoC not "following the rules"... if they did I expecrt I would still be living there ;)

andysue


Joined: 12/11/2007
Posts: 891

Message Posted:
19/01/2009 23:30

this post was started by paul on the fifteenth of this month , he has never as far as i know posted anything untoward, why then is he banned? this is getting out of hand. . am i the next?



andy

bachelibelly


Joined: 04/09/2008
Posts: 275

Message Posted:
20/01/2009 00:51

mmmmmm .Thanks for reply,sorry forgot you had experienced your fair share of beaurocratic bafoonery,but thanks for filling in some of my blanks.Personally i would love to do a full audit on the EU accounts ,to see how, why ,where the money is wasted,handed out ,covered up,all the mismanagement of funds would make the Darling Brown masterplan of spending your way out of bancruptcy seem like a pimple on the ass of insanity !!!



PS. Anyone any idea how much a year it costs to be part of this club of shysters !!!!!!

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
20/01/2009 00:55

"PS. Anyone any idea how much a year it costs to be part of this club of shysters !!!!!!"



a lot less than one death caused by a war between members.. There hasn't been a war between Germany and France / France / UK - for example - for the longest time in centuries...



Of course I realise that the accounts haven't been approved for YEARS...